recording our first album

[b to g is yummy]

I'm in a young Christian rock/worship band. Musically we are ok, not super tight, just fairly inexperienced i guess. The strongest point of our band is lyrics/message of the song.

People are often asking us if we have a cd yet, or if we're making one. We only have 6 originals yet, so we're obviously not ready to record yet. We do want to record someday, but we dont want to do it till we can make a really solid, professional recording. It's probably just a dream but we really want to go places with this band cuz we think we've really got a good thing going here.

We havent played many shows yet either, and i'm sure having a cd would be a great marketing tool to get our name out there as well.

I guess what i'm looking for is advice on what to do. Should we just record a 3 song demo or so and hope a good producer falls in love with us?? or would we be better off waiting and working our tails off, and breaking the bank to pay for a good studio and producer etc after we've nailed down enough solid tunes? Is there a certain recording quality criteria for radio??

I'd really like to hear from you experienced band guys as to what you think is the best way to get our music out there, and just general studio advice and things to look for in terms of recording and where to go. We live in ontario, canada.

thanks so much

[MistaMarko]

You're band is kinda where mine is, except my band is progressive instrumental music. We got lots of originals, and we're going to make our first CD by ourselves.

1. It's free
2. Take as much time as you want
3. Can master your songs YOUR OWN way

Takes a little time and money obviously, but it's a good start. 's what I recommend.

[Hyde]

Two major pieces of advice:

1. You probably aren't ready to record anything that will actually sound good yet. You only have six original songs? You aren't that tight? You're fairly inexperienced and haven't played many gigs? I hate to break it to you, but I don't care who records it, at best you'll have a very accurate, clean, and full-sounding recording of an inexperienced band. Play shows. Play lots and lots of shows. Set up a video camera at your shows and figure out what you need to work on. Record yourselves on an MD player and pick your performance apart as a group. At this point, I guarantee that if you rush into recording something, you're going to hate it within a few months, because if you guys are serious about your band, you'll improve dramatically and be embarrassed to have your name attached to
the young, inexperienced band you used to be. Trust me on this, I know!

2. (and this mostly applies to recording once you're really ready to, but I figured I would throw it in) If you guys are currently inexperienced at playing shows, I'm betting that none of you have a couple decades of running sound and recording bands under your belt. Well, one of the biggest things you can do to improve what your music will sound like is to go to someone who does. What you really pay for when you hire a producer and a studio isn't the equipment, although it should be a big step up over what you would be using otherwise. What you pay for is to have someone experienced in your style of music to help mold your sound. Nobody is above that, that's why million dollar bands have producers. I have never heard an inexperienced band record themselves and have it turn out well. IME, you'll have band members who know what something SHOULD sound like, so they gloss over what it actually DOES sound like when they play it. When my band recorded a few months ago, we must have heard the phrase "That was good, but try one more take, and this time focus on playing it cleaner" dozens of times, and that was just for two songs. And because of that, it turned out much better than anything we could have produced ourselves. Not to mention that by watching the producer at work, we quickly found out that we didn't know diddly-squat about the isolation, mic placement, and EQ techniques that will get you the best sound in the studio. No offense, but you guys probably don't either.

So I guess the bottom line here is that I doubt your ready to really record something that you guys will be proud of a year from now (although recording now would be a great learning experience for you all), but when you are, having an experienced outside ear there will make a world of difference in the project.

[jeffreyhamby]

That's pretty sound advice from Hyde.

I would just add (and Hyde eluded do it a bit) that you ought to make tapes off the board during your shows... not to compile as a cd, but to critically listen to yourselves. Pick it apart piece by piece and find where you need improvement.

There's nothing at all wrong with doing a short cd... demo, SP, whatever you want to call it. But it's my opinion that there's something a bit wrong with one that sounds unprofessional.

[Spoiled Grape]

I don't think a demo is very necessary in the Christian Music market, in order to get gigs. When I used to be into that sort of thing, my group got plenty of gigs booked for us.

I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but without going too deep into the subject, the scene is much different for Christian acts. You won't get the huge festivals/concerts without a CD, but you'll do fine until than.

If anything, I would record a full length when you are ready. The best four songs you put on a demo and hand out. The scene doesn't require young acts to have demos, unless it has changed drastically.

[Bayou_Brawler]

good advice from hyde...

not to be a downer..but just keep in mind there are about 9,999,999,999, bands out there that "have a dream" and "really want to go places with this band cuz we think we've really got a good thing going here."

so if you want to make a spalsh in that number you just got to stay dedicated and play your tails off as much as possible...then after 3 years or so maybe someone will notice you if your lucky and have the stuff

[jimb213]

Originally Posted by Hyde

Two major pieces of advice:

+1

I've got a couple of quasi-high-profile gigs in the Christian scene around here (I don't like the Christian label applied to music btw; but that's another rant), and as a result I've been given CD's by a couple different Christian artists, one wanting a bass player, and one just networking. Just like Hyde said, they're recordings of inexperienced, loose, amateur sounding bands. But they're not even quality recordings of mediocre bands; the recording quality is terrible and the mix sucks. The guitar and bass tones sound like tones that sound neat at low volumes in the bedroom, but don't sound good at all in a band or live situation. The drums and bass are so boomy and eq'd so poorly that the guitars are lost in the mix.

If I was in charge of booking a venue (in the secular or Christian market), I wouldn't book them.

Play what shows you can, and if possible, join the worship team at your church. Playing in church twice a month (or more) for the last few years has probably improved my playing more than just about anything else.

[Spoiled Grape]

Originally Posted by jimb213

Play what shows you can, and if possible, join the worship team at your church. Playing in church twice a month (or more) for the last few years has probably improved my playing more than just about anything else.

Word. I learned me some chops in Worship Band.

[b to g is yummy]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm liking Hyde's advice about waiting/waitiing/waiting to record till we've gotten more experienced, and then doing a good job of it. That has been my feeling all along.

I guess I'm kinda the cool-headed voice of reason in the band, and i think some of the other boys are thinking that if all these people are asking us for cds than we should do it as soon as we can. I'm going to have to be stubborn about it and help them to realize that studio's and producers arent magic. Probably the shows will come with time too, we'll just have to be patient and practise practise practise. What about touring...the other guys think we might as well not really tour till we have a cd since they think after our shows we'll just be forgotten? i tihnk its still a good idea, cuz its experience and practise, and we get to see how the fans respond to different songs.

hmm sounds kinda like i got the answers for my own questions...

[Bayou_Brawler]

Originally Posted by b to g is yummy

What about touring...the other guys think we might as well not really tour till we have a cd since they think after our shows we'll just be forgotten? i tihnk its still a good idea, cuz its experience and practise, and we get to see how the fans respond to different songs.

hmm sounds kinda like i got the answers for my own questions...

what do you mean touring?

if you mean play'n everywhere you can within a 5 hour drive of your house then yes...like i said you got to play your tails off everyhwere you can...

if you mean actually going on the road....talk to some guys that have done some real touring here....but make sure your ready for that... as it probably means destroying a car...massive credit card debt...and playing in front of no one your first trip :-)

if you do have a CD not everyone will buy it...if your worried about people remembering you then give out free samples...

your first cd is little more than a promotional tool anyway....

sorry not to be a downer again haha...but the reality is hard...still the most fun thing in the world though :-)

[Spoiled Grape]

Eh, this is turning into a "how to start a band off" thread, so I'll chime in with the time-proven advice.

- Keep playing live, in your area.

Book every show you can, and keep it local.

- Build a fanbase that consists of more than your friends and church buddies.

Your friends and church buddies are great! But you need more fans. Fans that like your music BECAUSE of the music, not just because they know you.

- Get shirts, stickers, and buttons.

You don't have a CD yet because you aren't ready, but that doesn't mean you can't have other merch. People will remember the name of your act. Give the stickers and buttons away for free, sell the shirts.

- Practice 3-4 songs ALOT.

Get three or four songs down really tight. Your best songs, make them amazing.

- Record those three or four songs.

Record them on the cheap. Make it a good recording, but don't be afraid to be cheap. It's a demo, and you hand it out for free at all your shows. Remember, you are making money off of shirts right now.


Repeat that for two years.

Touring is not something you take lightly, and I'm not even sure HOW a Christian group does it. I've seen a few Christian groups go with missionaries on tour, and stuff, so I'm assuming it's through the Church.

It might be best to ask questions from your favorite Christian acts, or even experienced musicians here. I'm not lying when I say the Christian Rock/Worship scene is vastly different from the secular music scene. Everything is run much differently, for the better or worse.

[b to g is yummy]

just out of curiousity...
how much does it cost to make decent full-length album? i havent really found a solid figure anywhere. i know there is a wide range in prices and quality, but i'd like to know some ballpark figures from some of you people who have gone to a studio with a producer and made a cd that could've at least made it onto local radio.

ps no i havent suddenly decided to record in the near future, JUST CURIOUS!!

[jimb213]

Originally Posted by b to g is yummy

just out of curiousity...
how much does it cost to make decent full-length album? i havent really found a solid figure anywhere. i know there is a wide range in prices and quality, but i'd like to know some ballpark figures from some of you people who have gone to a studio with a producer and made a cd that could've at least made it onto local radio.

ps no i havent suddenly decided to record in the near future, JUST CURIOUS!!

the short answer is thousands of dollars, either in buying equipment and doing it yourself (in which case you should spend tons of time learning about the art of recording, and doing lots of experimenting, before you make your demo), or in renting a studio and hiring a producer and engineer (in which case you should spend tons of time practicing individually and as a group to minimize the number of takes for each song. time is money!!).

[Spoiled Grape]

Originally Posted by b to g is yummy

just out of curiousity...
how much does it cost to make decent full-length album? i havent really found a solid figure anywhere. i know there is a wide range in prices and quality, but i'd like to know some ballpark figures from some of you people who have gone to a studio with a producer and made a cd that could've at least made it onto local radio.

ps no i havent suddenly decided to record in the near future, JUST CURIOUS!!

We did our CD 100% out of pocket. We had a decent connection with the studio/producer, so the recording price might differ from you.

Ballpark:

$1,300 for 1,000 CDs. (Prices differ slightly, but that's ballpark.)
$500 for Mastering. Again, hook-up through the Fender Factory.
$1,500 for Recording Time. Ballpark for about 15 songs, not all of which we used.

If you are doing this DIY, it's probably best to find out what you can skimp on, and what you can't. We saved the most money through free artwork and a very gracious discount with recording and mastering from two industry pros.

The CD has done decent for no label support, it's been played on the radio etc.

The key to keeping recording time low, is to have ALL your tracks mastered 100%. If one person is slacking, than that's money or time he/she is wasting. At least one month before recording, you want to have everyone practice their individual part by themselves. It's especially key for the drummer and bassist.

[Spoiled Grape]

BTW, that didn't include the cost to promote the CD, the shirts we ended up selling, buttons, stickers, or the CD release party.

It was a high overhead. Granted, we got all the money back the same day from CD/Shirt sales, but it was still a huge overhead.

[b to g is yummy]

wow i thought recording would be like 10x more expensive than that, especially the studio/producer costs. than again, i'm here to learn

[Spoiled Grape]

It can be if you want to make it that expensive.

It's all a matter of what you can afford, and what sounds right. Luckily, someone who made us sound "right" was affordable.

[b to g is yummy]

i think not having many shows will be good for us for a while here so we can concentrate on writing new material and really tightening up.

good point, whoever it was, about getting fans other than friends/family...pretty much everyone at our first couple shows knows someone in the band...luckily we know a lot of people through our churches and stuff so we can get like 400 people out which is pretty decent for a new band, i think. hopefully eventually they will drag more of their friends along.

Thats where i like the idea brought up about recording 3 good songs on a cd to hand out(maybe sell for cheap) at shows...i think maybe we'll have to do something like that...eventually...once we can do a good basement recording, however soon that phenomenon shall occur than we could maybe mail it to churches all over ontario and hope for a couple invites.

for now, i think we aughta stay content with one show every couple months or whatever pops up and just pracitise like crazy.
thanks again guys, i appreciate the advice

[Dkerwood]

Man, home recording gear is getting so cheap these days.

For $300, you can pick up a digital 8 track that records to your computer via FireWire. You can run that as a main board at shows and send all 8 tracks to your computer to be edited and mixed down later.

I can't TELL you how much I've learned about music and recording just by sitting in my basement and doing stupid recording projects.

Now, about gigs. There are two ways to get them when you start out in the Christian scene (at least this is how it works for us, and we've been at this for three years now). You can sit back and play the gigs that fall into your lap (one show every couple of months like you said), OR you can work your tail off and get every gig you can.

When we decided to devote some serious time to the band, I compiled a huge database of church emails in my area. I started sending out huge mass emails, asking for the opportunity to play. I started stalking Christian bands on Myspace, asking if we could open for them on specific gigs. I'd look at upcoming Christian rock shows on Myspace and I'd contact those venues to see if we could organize a show for ourselves there.

We went from 12 shows in 2005 to 31 shows in 2006 by doing just that. Yes, you will have a lot of crappy gigs that don't pay much. Yes, you'll have shows where nobody shows up. Yes, you'll have a lot of churches practically insult your "rock music" when you call to ask about their youth group. But you'll also have as many gigs as you want to work for.

One more thing. REACH for those gigs that you don't feel ready for. We did our first gig as a band in front of about 200 teens at a school in the middle of nowhere. We sucked, they didn't care. Later, when we got a new drummer, our second gig with him was opening for a national touring Christian rock act. Again, we sucked, and nobody cared.

We did our first tour in summer 06, and came back tighter and better than we've ever been. And yet, even after we spent countless hours filling slots for a short week-long road trip, we came back and had to return to the emails and phones to try to fill the fall schedule.

It's a never ending battle to try to get your momentum rolling. Luckily, however, once you DO get it rolling in the Christian music world, you're set. You can't quite sit back on your heels, but you actually get a few people calling YOU first, instead of you having to call everyone first.

Sorry for going on this long. I know your pain. As far as the recording goes, my advice is to keep it simple and stick to Myspace. You can send everyone there, and if they want to listen to your music, they can. Make sure to have at least one song with a really memorable hook (to the point of annoying the crap out of the band). That way, it'll get stuck in some heads.

Good luck! If you're ever down around Kansas, look us up! www.leavethursday.com

[b to g is yummy]

WOW! Thanks for your time to explain all that. I really apprectiate it! That's really helpful info. Maybe someday, thanks to your help, Unified will meet Leave Thursday! Thanks again, wow you are a great help!