recording session expectations

[EBodious]

hey all,

i spend a lot of time playing in the bass and amp forums, thought i'd take advantage of some free "therapy."

so my rock band of two years is going to do a quick studio session in a few weeks. we've got all day saturday and half a sunday booked. we have been tracking in layers in our home studio, but wanted to try a new environment and some "live" recording.

we have been working up 5 songs. i started talking about priorities the other day, as in, if we can't get everything done what would we prefer? i thought i was being practical, but my intentions were not well received.

our goal is to get a solid, live-feel tracks for each song, and then punch-in biff fixes and over-dub gtr solos and vox. my experience with recording is that everything takes way longer than you ever expect. i was suggesting we think about whether we want to go home with 5 songs partially done (we can over-dub at home) or 3 songs complete.

the band seems to think i am doubting our abilities (or am nervous that i am not up for the task).

so, are my expectations way out of whack? we are not mixing down at the studio. we plan to go home with the raw trax.

thanks

[mothmonsterman]

I always think things will take longer than they usually do just to be safe, time is a tricky bastard.
If you're doing live tracks with every member in the same session i'll probably take longer, someone will always mess up it's the nature of the beast and the whole band might need to start over.

Last recording session i was in the guy was recording on a computer and it went extremely fast, played the song to start off then patched the things i messed up.

it could go either way.

[stranger0]

3 songs totally done, if you set your goals to high you may not even get 5 partial songs. You can never account for the problems you may get when you enter into a new place you've never been.

[funkydanbass]

If you want to get 5 done you can always allocate your available hours in the studio to 5 songs. In addition to setup, line checking etc etc. If the band is tight and just laying rhythm beds I don't think you'll have trouble getting 5 songs tracked.

Of course time limits can mean compromise.

[ric1312]

Originally Posted by EBodious

hey all,

i spend a lot of time playing in the bass and amp forums, thought i'd take advantage of some free "therapy."

so my rock band of two years is going to do a quick studio session in a few weeks. we've got all day saturday and half a sunday booked. we have been tracking in layers in our home studio, but wanted to try a new environment and some "live" recording.

we have been working up 5 songs. i started talking about priorities the other day, as in, if we can't get everything done what would we prefer? i thought i was being practical, but my intentions were not well received.

our goal is to get a solid, live-feel tracks for each song, and then punch-in biff fixes and over-dub gtr solos and vox. my experience with recording is that everything takes way longer than you ever expect. i was suggesting we think about whether we want to go home with 5 songs partially done (we can over-dub at home) or 3 songs complete.

the band seems to think i am doubting our abilities (or am nervous that i am not up for the task).

so, are my expectations way out of whack? we are not mixing down at the studio. we plan to go home with the raw trax.

thanks

How many hours are you talking. One and half days for five songs is stretching it, depending on the quality you want.

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by ric1312

How many hours are you talking. One and half days for five songs is stretching it, depending on the quality you want.

well thank you one and all for not letting me think i am crazy. why are bass players the only grounded members of the band?

but seriously, i learned today that one and a half days is actually 18 hours (12, 6). that sounds like a lot, but includes all the set up and we may need to eat occasionally. again, not mixing down there well help save time.

i think quality is the real variable here. that's what i was trying to discuss with the band, but they didn't seem to hear it. the official goal is "dark side of the moon." maybe that was tongue-in-cheek, but we are not going for demo quality. we want studio quality. the idea is get a good live one and then punch-in fixes. i still think we may need to record each song 3,4,5,6 times to catch a generally tite one.

[Geddyfleaharris]

Originally Posted by stranger0

3 songs totally done, if you set your goals to high you may not even get 5 partial songs. You can never account for the problems you may get when you enter into a new place you've never been.

I agree 3 songs complete and that may be pushing it depending on how many actual hours you get. We did our 3 song demo on a Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday during the day. Even after you get all the basic tracks down the engineer has to "snap" the basic tracks together before you ever start doing punch ins. That is what takes time. That and the hockey play offs that the engineer might want to take a break to watch and the pizza and the beer.....

We set up and did all the basic tracks on the Friday night recording each song 3 to 4 times until we thought we had a good take. The we fixed up the drum tracks. Saturday after they snapped the tracks together we did all the guitars and bass punch ins. Sunday all the vocals.

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by Geddyfleaharris

I agree 3 songs complete and that may be pushing it depending on how many actual hours you get. We did our 3 song demo on a Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday during the day. Even after you get all the basic tracks down the engineer has to "snap" the basic tracks together before you ever start doing punch ins. That is what takes time. That and the hockey play offs that the engineer might want to take a break to watch and the pizza and the beer.....

We set up and did all the basic tracks on the Friday night recording each song 3 to 4 times until we thought we had a good take. The we fixed up the drum tracks. Saturday after they snapped the tracks together we did all the guitars and bass punch ins. Sunday all the vocals.

so what exactly is "snapping" trax?

[reverb508]

I agree. It's always good to have conservative expectations when you record. Focus on making 3 songs as good as you can make them rather than banging out 5 so-so efforts.

[EBodious]

thanks again gang.

so, anyone wanna volunteer to tell my band to listen to the bass player?!?!?!?!

[spc]

Have them take a look at this thread!!!

Time gets eaten up quick in the studio. Everyone has to get sounds, drums have to be set up, amps and mic set up time...
You won't be walking in and just recording (I'm sure you know that though)...

The last couple of times I've been in (the last time was for a demo to go to singer songwriter Ellis Paul and his mgr), I tried really hard to not be too picky. The engineer plugged me in and mic'ed my cab, and then asked if I wanted to come into the control room to hear the bass sound. I asked him how it sounded in there and he said "Great!", and I said "What do I need to hear it for then?"

Good luck, and have fun, it will definitely be a learning experience for all of you!

shawn

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by spc

Have them take a look at this thread!!!

shawn

no way!!!! talkbass is my "safe place." last thing i want is for them non-bassists to come poking around here!

i was thinking of vindicating myself, by telling them about my findings on this thread. but i started thinking that if they aren't into a "hope for the best, but plan for the worst" mindset, then telling them i am sharing our band-issues with bass players throughout the world mite just make things all the worse.

musicians are an odd and sensitive bunch, ain't we?!

my plan is to go and be positive. we have agreed that we will have to watch the clock and be prepared to be flexible with our goals. the only potential for conflict (i think), may be where we draw the line between what is a solid take and what is good enough. personally, i would rather have 3 solid tunes then 5 so-so.

did i mention i am a bit of a perfectionist?

[IanStephenson]

Last time I was in the studio we were there for 3.5 hours and did three tracks...

BUT the time before we there there for about 2 full days, and didnt finish 3.

Different bands, different objectives, different people.

The new band gigs every weekend, and wanted a demo to send out to get gigs. We turned up at 6pm one night, plugged in an recorded three tracks live, overdubbed a couple of solo's, recorded vocals, mixed and were out in time to make it to the pub.

It sounds good, though in retrospect I'd fix a couple of minor things. Overall we were really happy with it, but the key was we had realistic expectations knew we could play it all and get it right second take, if not first.

The previous time everything was recorded seperate. Even that only took a day, but the entire second day was taken up with the singer recording his parts, and not being able to deliver them the way he wanted (thats OK - it was his band, and he was paying!). Ironically the guitarist was a great singer, and on the song he was doing vocals on he absolutely nailed first take.

You say you're shooting for perfection - that's possible, but it's going to cost you. If you want "dark side of the moon", 18 hours MIGHT be enough to get the drum kit mic'ed - but probably not.

It sounds like you've not done this much (me neither), so just go in, have some fun, stay on budget, and learn for next time. Make sure you can play the parts, and know what you're going to do going in. Trust your engineer (and hope you get a good one) - if you're lucky he'll take charge, and tell you what's working.

And part fininshing 5 tracks sounds just dumb... get three DONE. Then you have three tracks! Five part finished tracks is.... well ... No Tracks. "solid" is a good level to shoot for...

Ian

[Rattman]

Originally Posted by mothmonsterman

I always think things will take longer than they usually do just to be safe, time is a tricky bastard.
If you're doing live tracks with every member in the same session i'll probably take longer, someone will always mess up it's the nature of the beast and the whole band might need to start over.

Last recording session i was in the guy was recording on a computer and it went extremely fast, played the song to start off then patched the things i messed up.

it could go either way.

I concur.. when we record, we just throw the clock out the window and layer until we get sick of it. Besides, unless the vocals are being laid down, its just ONE of us in the 'hot seat' at a time. The producer calls us in one-by-one as his schedule allows.. nothing "live" about that he he he!!

[tZer]

Originally Posted by EBodious

hey all,

i spend a lot of time playing in the bass and amp forums, thought i'd take advantage of some free "therapy."

so my rock band of two years is going to do a quick studio session in a few weeks. we've got all day saturday and half a sunday booked. we have been tracking in layers in our home studio, but wanted to try a new environment and some "live" recording.

we have been working up 5 songs. i started talking about priorities the other day, as in, if we can't get everything done what would we prefer? i thought i was being practical, but my intentions were not well received.

our goal is to get a solid, live-feel tracks for each song, and then punch-in biff fixes and over-dub gtr solos and vox. my experience with recording is that everything takes way longer than you ever expect. i was suggesting we think about whether we want to go home with 5 songs partially done (we can over-dub at home) or 3 songs complete.

the band seems to think i am doubting our abilities (or am nervous that i am not up for the task).

so, are my expectations way out of whack? we are not mixing down at the studio. we plan to go home with the raw trax.

thanks

Your perspective seems to be right on.

I've spent the last 18 months getting our little basement studio and recording process worked out. The goal - be able to play as naturally as possible while simultaneously capturing individual tracks.

The way I figure it - if we get good at playing together - laying the foundation of a song with killer execution and dynamics AND I am capturing each player on their own tracks (drums on 4) - then engineering and producing demos should be pretty damn easy. Punch in this - overdub that - mix, master, BAM!

After 15 or so months of try this, try that - having everyone lay foundation tracks live, then polishing the song with overdubs and mixing is definitely the most efficient way to move through the process quickly. And even with all the efficiencies I've built into our process - with me taking the tracks home and doing some non-band-time editing and polishing - it still takes longer than you expect to get to the finish line.

I think your point of view is good and breaking the process down and prioritizing things is a very good approach.

Another thing I've found is that, even though you are working with musicians (who are sometime automatically considered 'visionary' or 'abstract' thinkers) a lot of times they require more tangible things to fully appreciate a theory or idea. In other words, they suffer from a lack of imagination or the ability to conceptualize.

This is something you'll have to deal with because it's the way their brains work. Try not to let their inability to join you in your clarity bring you down. Gently push them in the direction of sanity and ignore the bitching and moaning. Try new ways to present your ideas for building efficiencies into the process without overwhelming them with a grand plan.

[Geddyfleaharris]

Originally Posted by EBodious

so what exactly is "snapping" trax?

Well not being an extremely technical guy my basic understanding of this process (assuming the studio is using Protools) was making sure the basic track was running at the same tempo through the whole song and making sure that there no overt volume spikes on the track etc. Just making sure that the basic track is as tight and as close to perfect as possible according to Protools from beginning to end.

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by tZer

Gently push them in the direction of sanity and ignore the bitching and moaning. Try new ways to present your ideas for building efficiencies into the process without overwhelming them with a grand plan.

thanks for the wisdom. i appreciate it. the irony is i think that if you asked them they would say that i am the one "bi***ing and moaning" cause they are psyched and ready. oddly, three of the four of us have a reasonable amount of recording experience. how it is that they don't think everything takes longer than planned is beyond me. but, i like your advice, i think i do get caught in overwhelming people with too much input.

one thing for sure, the experience definitely is shaped by who i go into the studio with. different people, different expectations, different personalities.


boy, it fees good to have a place to vent.

thanks again

and again