Refused Payment...?

[Winfred]

If you're BL is only gonna pay you when things go perfectly, you're never gonna get paid.

Your band needs to have an adult, professional conversation with your BL.

[Roadkill]

I still say just quit - this BL just stole your money and there's no way you should tolerate that $#!+ .

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by two fingers

If the owner had said something negative to say about the band's performance, you may have a point about the "diplomacy" of such a move. But when the guy is standing there with cash in hand, he's satisfied.

Again with the BAND LEADER thing. Why do these small time bands all have LEADERS? I just don't get it! It drives me NUTS to read all these stories (at least five a week) of these Hitler like little bastards who get some sort of ego trip out of being the "leader" of a local cover band. Oy. Go start a band with some EQUALS rather than being the EMPLOYEE of someone with a Napoleon complex! Sorry for the rant. I just don't understand why there's a "my band leader did something stupid last night" story every twenty minutes here. It's not your fault. I just have no frame of reference for working "under" some idiot who wants to RUN something so badly that he starts a band.

Well said!

[Icey101]

somethings isnt right.....with the BL

get to the bottom of it or leave....simple

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by two fingers

If the owner had said something negative to say about the band's performance, you may have a point about the "diplomacy" of such a move. But when the guy is standing there with cash in hand, he's satisfied.

Again with the BAND LEADER thing. Why do these small time bands all have LEADERS? I just don't get it! It drives me NUTS to read all these stories (at least five a week) of these Hitler like little bastards who get some sort of ego trip out of being the "leader" of a local cover band. Oy. Go start a band with some EQUALS rather than being the EMPLOYEE of someone with a Napoleon complex! Sorry for the rant. I just don't understand why there's a "my band leader did something stupid last night" story every twenty minutes here. It's not your fault. I just have no frame of reference for working "under" some idiot who wants to RUN something so badly that he starts a band.

No, but how do you really feel?

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by two fingers

If the owner had said something negative to say about the band's performance, you may have a point about the "diplomacy" of such a move. But when the guy is standing there with cash in hand, he's satisfied.

Again with the BAND LEADER thing. Why do these small time bands all have LEADERS? I just don't get it! It drives me NUTS to read all these stories (at least five a week) of these Hitler like little bastards who get some sort of ego trip out of being the "leader" of a local cover band. Oy. Go start a band with some EQUALS rather than being the EMPLOYEE of someone with a Napoleon complex! Sorry for the rant. I just don't understand why there's a "my band leader did something stupid last night" story every twenty minutes here. It's not your fault. I just have no frame of reference for working "under" some idiot who wants to RUN something so badly that he starts a band.

A democratic band can have just as many problems, than a BL type band. A "Hitler" can make that situation just as difficult. Something as small as setting a rehearsal date or picking new songs can be painful in a democracy.

[rockinrayduke]

If he felt that bad about it he should have only surrendered his own share. Once I commit to a gig that money better be there when I'm done. Pretty misguided attempt to curry favor with a club owner.

[obimark]

"Perfection is the ENEMY of the GOOD" Repeat this and say it every morning.
THis style of perfectionism has ruined more bands than I can count.

MUSIC PERFORMANCE is NOT meant to be perfect, that is WHY it is a PERFORMANCE> IT is a unique one-time occurance.
EVEN RUSH and DT have screwups on there LIVE videos/concerts. AND YOUR BAND LEader is a douche! and deserved a beat-down.

[bassmonkeee]

The first time someone else decided I was working for free would be the last time I played with them.

If he's the bandleader, he still has to pay the band, regardless of what decisions he makes. And, "agreed upon money" to "zero money" shows he's a poor band "leader." The same point could have been made by returning 10% instead of ALL of the money.

An ass-whooping would not be out of order.

[Indiana Mike]

Doesn't sound like a band leader .....sounds like a band dictator

[Indiana Mike]

And now will the bar owner assume he has a free or discount house band?

[obimark]

All of us small time cover bands do NOT need an official BL.
It is fine that one point person is the contact person for booking gigs, but this is a RESPONSIBiLITY not a dictator position. and this person has to have Buy-in from the whole band BEFORE booking a gig.

But this HITLER, junior dictator crap is lame.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by bassmonkeee

If he's the bandleader, he still has to pay the band, regardless of what decisions he makes.

That's what I think. If he's the band leader, it's his band, then he hired you to play that night, and he owes you your agreed-upon pay. If it's a leaderless band, and everyone is an equal partner, then you should all have been consulted about any decision to change the pay. Either way, this guy blew it.

It would be different (to me at least) if he came up to me and said "You know, we didn't sound very good tonight, the bar manager isn't happpy, I don't think we should charge him." Then we could have a conversation - the band and the bar manager - about what went wrong and how to rectify it. Maybe we offer to play for free the next time.

I'm not sure I'd quit over this, but at the very least I would have a talk with the band leader and get very clear about our arrangement.

[lfmn16]

Rather than make a big deal out of this I would just approach him, not in front of everyone, and say something like, "I appreciate the gig and like playing with everyone, but I don't play for free. Next time you kick back the band's pay, I expect to get paid anyway."

Just leave it at that. Either he pays you or he fires you, but nobody should play for free.

[ChrisB2]

I'm all for bandleaders (not Hitlers, which most are not), but this guy screwed up big time.

If you like the guys, the songs, the gigs, the pay... I would have a discussion with him. It's possible (albeit unlikely) that he just made an error in judgment. It happens. Then you'll find out that either he's truly a dick, or he just had a "DOH!" moment, and can make a more informed decision about whether to continue with him or not.

However, if there are other factors you're unhappy with anyway, then I would just take this opportunity to show myself the door. My exit strategy would depend on whether I wanted to remain in contact with any of the members.

[NightOwl71]

Thanks for all of the replies all, I appreciate the input. So we had a phone version of a band meeting earlier and the bandleader backpedaled pretty hard. He agreed that it was a jerk move and will be paying us out of his pocket. He also promised that it would never happen again.

At the time of refusal he was feeling like his playing wasn't up to par that night, and was a bit tipsy. We made it clear to him that he needs to consult the band before doing anything like that again, and he agreed and appears to feel pretty bad about it.

In all, it turned out much better than I thought it would!

[jgroh]

Good. We are a happy democracy in my cover band. However, we have "point people" that take the reigns on certain tasks. The drummer/singer does alot of the booking, I do all the marketing and materials, and the other guys chip in on other things when needed. It works for us.

In my last band which I was in for over 5 years, it was a democracy for about the first 4 years, then started becoming more of a BL type of thing and that is what led to its demise.

Glad to hear you will be paid and have an understanding now. I wouldnt have busted my butt on a gig to not be paid.

[rockosocko]

Let it put it to you this way; when you work at your day job, if your performance isn't as it should be, do you tell your employer not to pay you? Of course not, everyone has bad days or in this case, off nights. Your bandleader had no right refusing the money. If he felt that badly about it, he should not have accepted his share.

[klokker]

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

And now will the bar owner assume he has a free or discount house band?

Right. The door's open.....now the owner can withhold paying for any little reason possible.

Really dumb move. BL has a psychological need to be liked or something that is dysfunctional and detrimental to the health of the band.

[Joe Louvar]

The BL should have spoken with you first before making a call like that and therefore owes you your wages. Personally, I’d just drop it and move on. PS: The guitarist needs a backup guitar and needs to learn how to play with a broken string. Good luck.

Originally Posted by NightOwl71

Hi all, I've been lurking here for quite some time but something happened the other night that I just had to get some opinions on.

Long story short: I'm currently playing in a cover band that has become the de facto house band in a local bar. We all have day jobs and are just doing it for fun and maybe a little extra cash.

Last night we played a full set, and when the bar's owner tried to pay us, our bandleader unilaterally refused the money.

It's not like we're getting paid massive amounts of cash for the gig, but it's not pennies either. The reasons the BL gave are "we had sound difficulties, we weren't tight on a couple songs, and there weren't as many people". I'm honestly a little dumbfounded.

We had feedback for about 10 seconds until I got it sorted out, and our guitarist broke 2 of his strings at different times during the night. But I thought we handled it well and kept moving.

We always split everything evenly, and I am considering pushing the BL to pay me what I would have made. I think if he wanted to refuse payment, he should give back his share. On the other hand, this could be a good diplomatic move with the owner for the band.

What do you think? Should I make a fuss about it or just let it go?