Rhythm Guitar: Opinions?

[bassgod0dmw]

I like having a band with a single guitarist better, one that plays both roles equally well. I like to be the one filling in the rhythm when the guitar takes a solo. I feel like it gives me more freedom and it gives a great opportunity to hear the bass!

Originally Posted by mellowinman

The guy has to be good enough to play lead, but NOT WANT TO.

Excellent way to put it!

Originally Posted by beefandbones

Rhythm guitarists generally play chords. Lead guitarists generally play scales. That's just the way it is.

Depending on the style of music, the lead player is going to be playing rhythm guitar for 95% of the song. Using doing the same exact thing as the rhythm player.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by podiumboy

The problem with rhythm guitar players is that they are usually just the guys who know how to strum chords, but not good enough to play lead. I'm running into problems because everybody we play with on Rhythm guitar turns out to be this lazy, lethargic player who can't be bothered to do much of anything except G, Em, C, D.

They're usually the guys who don't know their scales, or much of anything besides open chords. What makes a good rhythm guitarist to you people?

A problem in your post is that it seems to think in terms of 'one is better than the other', when comparing lead/rhythm guitar.
You seem to surround yourself with the wrong people . I don't know how else you might have come to communicate an opinion such as the one in your post.

I know plenty lead players who are not mature enough as musicians to play lead guitar well. I alsoknow plenty rhythm players who play lead very well...but really all teh people I know do both very well but hose to only accept those jobs for which they are asked to do the thing they prefer doing.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Rhythm guitar players who hack out the same open string or barre chords in the same positions, all six strings blasting away, can really clog a mix and drag a band down.

So true. "Space" and taste is everything when it comes to rhythm guitar (although to some degree that applies to everyone).

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by podiumboy

The problem with rhythm guitar players is that they are usually just the guys who know how to strum chords, but not good enough to play lead. I'm running into problems because everybody we play with on Rhythm guitar turns out to be this lazy, lethargic player who can't be bothered to do much of anything except G, Em, C, D.

They're usually the guys who don't know their scales, or much of anything besides open chords. What makes a good rhythm guitarist to you people?

A problem in your post is that it seems to think in terms of 'one is better than the other', when comparing lead/rhythm guitar-a very immature way of thinking, as far as I'm concerned, asn I am quite sure you'll get over it in time

Maybe you just surround yourself with the wrong people-you seem to be speaking from experience afteral.
I don't know how else you might have come to communicate an opinion such as the one in your post.

I have met lead players who are not mature enough as musicians to play rhythm guitar well.
Not all rhythm guitar players I have come across were the greatest lead players either.
The people I know today are mostly good musicians and can do both. They usually choose to do what they like doing better.
Whatever they do is usually tasteful appropriate, well judged. Sometimes it is inspired. So really I do not think in terms of , 'Oh he/she is a rhythm or lead guitarist.' I just think... 'they can play and will do what works, bringing their own thing to it without making it all about themselves, whichever role, lead or rhythms they are asked to fulfill'

[F-Clef-Jef]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

As someone has already posted, at the Pro Level (not necessarily Rock Star) guitarists are equally adept at Rhythm and Lead. The guys I typically work with can play any type of acoustic guitar with lead or rhythm (nylon string, 12 string, steel string and Nashville tuning) and then turn around and play virtually any style of Electric from Rock to Telecaster Country to George Benson Jazz and John Leventhal soundscapes and keep it totally in the pocket.
I have made records with great guitarists like George Marinelli (Bonnie Raitt), Brent Mason, Kerry Marks (Opry Staff Band) and Pete Huttlinger (National Fingerpicking Champion/John Denver) and they can play great rhythm that keeps the band in the pocket and turn around and play scorching leads.

^^^^^ This. ^^^^^
A guitarist who can't play rhythm guitar well is kinda useless. In any style or genre.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

Depending on the style of music, the lead player is going to be playing rhythm guitar for 95% of the song. Using doing the same exact thing as the rhythm player.

I much prefer the rhythm guitar to play the rhythm, and the lead player to noodle around behind him when there is no lead rather than having both guitars playing the same thing.

IMO of course......

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by Phalex

I much prefer the rhythm guitar to play the rhythm, and the lead player to noodle around behind him when there is no lead rather than having both guitars playing the same thing.

IMO of course......

Agreed. If you're gonna have two guitars in the band they had both better be pulling their weight. Especially if there's not a lot of money to go around.

Complementary roles, different chord voicings, layering, lead harmonies, whatever but don't just have two guys/gals up there doubling each other 80% of the time. Thin Lizzy were masters of this, AC/DC does it really well, the Stones of course, and even bands like Gin Blossoms really had a handle on how to have two guitars in a band that both have something to say.

In the cover band world, a lot of tunes are better served with keys and one guitar vs. two guitars so if I have the choice I usually go with the keys player over a 2nd guitarist or best of all, a utility player that can take keys or guitar as the song requires.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by jaywa

In the cover band world, a lot of tunes are better served with keys and one guitar vs. two guitars so if I have the choice I usually go with the keys player over a 2nd guitarist or best of all, a utility player that can take keys or guitar as the song requires.

This is really smart.

I'm one of two guitars in a band, and both guitarists can play rhythm, lead, and keyboards equally well (or badly, take your pick). We never step on each other and always contribute something pertinent to every song we play.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

This is really smart.

I'm one of two guitars in a band, and both guitarists can play rhythm, lead, and keyboards equally well (or badly, take your pick). We never step on each other and always contribute something pertinent to every song we play.

Yup, Journey with Jonathan Cain is a classic example of a band that really makes that configuration work. With him being able to play piano, keys, guitar and sing lead/harmonies he's really the "secret weapon" in that band (IMO), who allows them to reproduce a lot of their studio material quite faithfully (yuk yuk) in live settings.

[DBCrocky]

All guitarists are rhythm guitarists.

Unless you are the lead in a Joe-Satriani style instrumental band, there are times when as a guitarist you cannot play lead. You can either play nothing, or play rhythm.

Rhythm Guitar is the art of playing something behind someone else's lead that enhances the what the lead is doing. Improvisationally, often it involves counterpoint. If the lead goes up high, you play down low. If the lead is playing lots of notes, you play ringing chords. If the lead is holding out singing notes, you play something choppy...etc. You are either providing space, or filling holes.

Generally, I prefer guitarists who can provide something else besides just lead guitar, whether it be lead guitar, vocals, switching off to keys or another instrument, etc.

[Jostein]

Originally Posted by jaywa

Nile Rogers is the alpha and omega of rhythm guitars AFAIC.

You said it. I saw an interview where he said he'd only play three strings at a time. You don't need to strum the full chord when you're in a band.

I used to be one of two guitarists in a band. The other one didn't have much rhythm and didn't know many chords, so I ended up as the rhythm player most of the time, or it would fall apart. So the notion that playing rhythm is somewhat inferior to playing lead isn't necessarily true.

[ahc]

Conversely, there's the guitar player who can only (attempt to) play lead and can't comp chords to save his/her life. My preference is for a "musician".

[ChrisB2]

I played in a band once with a guy who was a decent rhythm player but played no lead. He was content to strum with groove, tastefully, and at a low volume.

I miss that guy...

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

I played in a band once with a guy who was a decent rhythm player but played no lead. He was content to strum with groove, tastefully, and at a low volume.

I miss that guy...

Do you have his phone #?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Hardest position to fill in any band, especially rock.

The guy has to be good enough to play lead, but NOT NEED TO.

I'd agree with this edit. Not that most RG don't want to play lead. It's like they don't realize how hard to find what they do is.


It's one of the toughest positions to fill because it's not a glory position but it can make or break a groove. I'm lucky in that I know quite a few RG monsters.

I know lots of lead guitarist who can't comp.

[Oneirogenic]

The only strictly rhythm players I know are also singers. Vast majority of other guitarists fill what role they need to fill at the time. The guys I've met who identify solely as lead players tend to lack musicality (wanker). In a two guitar situation I prefer complementary guitar parts with a strong sense of space and alternating lead roles when a lead is a part of a song. I am speaking from an originals perspective though, covers are a whole other thing but I still prefer two guitarists with no permanently defined roles.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by podiumboy

The problem with rhythm guitar players is that they are usually just the guys who know how to strum chords, but not good enough to play lead. I'm running into problems because everybody we play with on Rhythm guitar turns out to be this lazy, lethargic player who can't be bothered to do much of anything except G, Em, C, D.

They're usually the guys who don't know their scales, or much of anything besides open chords. What makes a good rhythm guitarist to you people?

I think that maybe you confuse someone who holds a guitar with someone who plays a guitar ...

A good rhythm guitarist has the best characteristics of a good bassists (attentiveness to the groove, cooperation with the drummer, etc) and those of a good lead player (attention to chord structure, fills and riffs, energy, etc).

I think that too often those who know a few chords will call themselves a "rhythm guitarist" because they think that's all that involved.

[jaywa]

If a guitarist identifies himself more with the rhythm section then with the typical "front and center" guitarists, that's usually a good sign.

Steve Cropper comes to mind.

[Road Hat]

I trained for years in high school and college as a Swing and Big Band guitarist. All rhythm, very rare leads of 16 bars at most. Doesn't mean I couldn't play lead, but I much prefer cleanly negotiating a complex chord chart than ripping a blazing solo. Also, rhythm guitar was an essential component of my development as a bass player. Understanding chord theory, inversions, etc. really rounded me as a musician. Also, when I tackled chords on the bass, it was an easy and natural transition. As Dire Straights so aptly put it, "Check out Guitar George, he knows all the chords. But it's strictly rhythm, he don't want to make it cry or sing".

Grab a copy of Ted Green's chord chemistry and spend an afternoon or three applying the concepts to bass guitar. Time well spent IMO.

[birdman14]

I think someone like Pat Sansone is a great rhythm player because when he is playing guitar, he isn't just copying what Jeff or Nels are doing, but adding another layer of melody which fits perfectly between their parts.