SERIOUS drummer issues...

[Daywalker]

Well, let me start off by saying we just lost our drummer again! This is the fourth drummer we've gone through in the last year. All of them have said relatively the same things:

#1 - We're way too picky about the songs being "perfect" when it's only a cover. Didn't like the pressure...

#2 - We play too loud...

#3 - We were being "unprofessional" by drinking during the show.(everyone else that is, cause I don't drink.)

#4 - Songs are just way too technical. We should stop playing songs we like, and play easier, more driving, songs that are easier for the crowd to dance to.

#5 - Doesn't like the idea of not gettin as many paying gigs as house parties and stuff.


Now, the toughest songs we play as far as the drumming is concerned would have to be "Times Like These" by the Foo Fighters, "Show Me How to Live" be Audioslave, and "What's My Age Again" by Blink 182. Now my question is, would any of you out there agree with any of this stuff? Another thing I think I should mention, is that I'm the youngest band member at 27. The lead guitarist is 34, the singer is 46, and all the drummers have been 45 and up. We(the rest of us) think that age has a lot to do with these complaints. I think that they're just being lazy, and don't wanna devote any time toward doing the song justice. What you all think it could be?

[Rattman]

Wow, sorry for the run of bad luck with drummers.. would it be too forward to say (suggest) that for the sake of being efficient, that perhaps when and where you advertise for drummers needs some revision?

You obviously hinted you want younger drummers, you obviously want a drummer that will "like" these covers your band has on the setlists, and you seem to be looking for someone a bit "looser" all the way around..correct?

Seems your energies should maybe (IMHO) be directed towards places where this type of talent can be found. I mean, why bother even accepting auditions from middle aged drummers in the 1st place?

[hawaiianbass]

As a drummer what they say just doesn't make since to me.

I'm going to say something about each of the things.

!. Most drummers (me included) thrive on some pressure. Its what makes us better. And you should do the song justice by playing it as perfectly as you can, which you do, good job.

2. This just doesnt make since. The drummer should be able to easily overpower the rest of the band.

3. Apparently they don't know what professional is. Drinking is fine as long as your destroying anything or hurting anybody.

4. LAZY DRUMMER!!!!!!!!!!

5. Thats just dumb. House parties are fun.

If I were you I would find younger drummers. Do some searching, they tend to be prolific.

CK

[Lazylion]

Originally Posted by hawaiianbass

Drinking is fine as long as your destroying anything or hurting anybody.

Interesting philosophy... please don't move to my neighborhood.

[invader3k]

Originally Posted by hawaiianbass

Drinking is fine as long as your destroying anything or hurting anybody.

CK

This guys knows how to party!

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by Rattman

Wow, sorry for the run of bad luck with drummers.. would it be too forward to say (suggest) that for the sake of being efficient, that perhaps when and where you advertise for drummers needs some revision?

You obviously hinted you want younger drummers, you obviously want a drummer that will "like" these covers your band has on the setlists, and you seem to be looking for someone a bit "looser" all the way around..correct?

Seems your energies should maybe (IMHO) be directed towards places where this type of talent can be found. I mean, why bother even accepting auditions from middle aged drummers in the 1st place?

Well, you are absolutely correct. Only thing is, we tell each auditioner the same thing. That we do this mostly for fun, so if gettin paid is your goal than you're in the wrong place. We also show them our complete song list, and make sure they listen to all of them(we have mp3 links to every song we play on our web page). Lastly, we all work hard to cover the songs as perfectly as we are capable of, and that's all we would ever expect from you. They all seem "gung ho" at first, but late bail out for whatever reason. Even though they have been older, they all agreed to join after this short speach...

Originally Posted by hawaiianbass

As a drummer what they say just doesn't make since to me.

I'm going to say something about each of the things.

!. Most drummers (me included) thrive on some pressure. Its what makes us better. And you should do the song justice by playing it as perfectly as you can, which you do, good job.

2. This just doesnt make since. The drummer should be able to easily overpower the rest of the band.

3. Apparently they don't know what professional is. Drinking is fine as long as your destroying anything or hurting anybody.

4. LAZY DRUMMER!!!!!!!!!!

5. Thats just dumb. House parties are fun.

If I were you I would find younger drummers. Do some searching, they tend to be prolific.

CK

In response to #2, every drummer we've had used a mic system and went through our board. So I don't know if it was a "can't be heard" thing, or a "too loud as a band" thing... In response to #3, they guys might go through one bottle of beer per set. We normally play 2 sets, 13-15 songs each. Two beers in 3 hours doesn't seem excessive to me, but I don't drink so I don't know. In response to #4, my feelings exactly. Though I'm not a drummer, and don't know how hard it really is for him...

[Vandelay]

The drummer's age may have something to do with it. I'm 44, and I'm guessing most guys around this age won't really be into bands like Blink 182. And if they're not into it, they're not gonna be super-excited about memorizing all of Blink's drum fills.

Hard to judge the "way too technical" argument based on those 3 songs alone. How much of the rest of your set is easily danceable?

IMHO, drinking offstage during the set breaks isn't a big deal as long as the performance isn't suffering. Drinking onstage during the show -- not professional and not cool.

[Sherwood]

If four drummers in a row have complained about these things, I think the benefit of the doubt (not knowing any of the drummers or yourself) falls with them. Lots of musicians aren't interested in putting in the kind of time it seems you guys require without getting some paying gigs. As far as songs being too technical, that's crazy. Those all sound like great covers to me, though it depends what kind of house party you're playing for.

I'd suggest listening to their collective concerns, but keeping in mind that the right drummer will be interested in the style of music and the kind of gigs the rest of you like. Maybe you'll find a better match in an older player. Good luck.

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

Well, let me start off by saying we just lost our drummer again! This is the fourth drummer we've gone through in the last year. All of them have said relatively the same things:

#1 - We're way too picky about the songs being "perfect" when it's only a cover. Didn't like the pressure...

#2 - We play too loud...

#3 - We were being "unprofessional" by drinking during the show.(everyone else that is, cause I don't drink.)

#4 - Songs are just way too technical. We should stop playing songs we like, and play easier, more driving, songs that are easier for the crowd to dance to.

#5 - Doesn't like the idea of not gettin as many paying gigs as house parties and stuff.


Now, the toughest songs we play as far as the drumming is concerned would have to be "Times Like These" by the Foo Fighters, "Show Me How to Live" be Audioslave, and "What's My Age Again" by Blink 182. Now my question is, would any of you out there agree with any of this stuff? Another thing I think I should mention, is that I'm the youngest band member at 27. The lead guitarist is 34, the singer is 46, and all the drummers have been 45 and up. We(the rest of us) think that age has a lot to do with these complaints. I think that they're just being lazy, and don't wanna devote any time toward doing the song justice. What you all think it could be?

I don't know your band of course, so I don't know if the complaints are valid or not, but if you keep hearing the same thing from different drummers, there may be something to them.

Personally, for me, I'd be concerned about #2. Playing too loudly will prevent you from getting return bookings often. Sure rock isn't meant to be whisper quiet, but if you get repeated complaints you are too loud, I'd guess, you're too loud.

I'd be concerned with #3. There is NOTHING wrong with having a drink on stage in a bar band. It's a bit different if you are a show band. However, if it keeps getting mentioned, maybe a member or two drinks entirely too much, and it affects their performance?

#4 is a big one. If you want to get good gigs, and recurring gigs, you have to please the crowd, not yourselves.

#5 Playing is fun, but if it doesn't pay, I'm not doing it (except the occasional benefit for a good cause). With the age range of your band, I'd assume it's the same. When I was 19, I didn't care if I got paid to play. At 42, I do care. Although I love playing, it IS time away from the family, etc., and I expect to be compensated for it.

[Daywalker]

Ok, so you all will have a better idea of the songs we play, this was the set list from our last gig...

1st Set

1. INTRO
2. BRAIN STEW - Green Day
3. KRYPTONITE – Three Doors Down
4. PLUSH - Stone Temple Pilots
5. LADY - Lenny Kravitz
6. WHEN I’M GONE - No Address
7. INTERSTATE LOVE SONG - Stone Temple Pilots
8. 7 NATION ARMY - The White Stripes
9. PRAISE - Jimmy Eat World
10. SAY IT AIN’T SO – Weezer
11. BLISTER IN THE SUN - Violent Femes
12. IN TOO DEEP - Sum 41
13. ROCK AND ROLL IS DEAD – Lenny Kravitz
14. SHE’S A REBEL - Green Day
15. AMERICAN IDIOT - Green Day

2nd Set

16. TIMES LIKE THESE - Foo Fighters
17. TAKE ME OUT – Franz Ferdinand
18. HASH PIPE – Weezer
19. HARD TO HANDLE – Black Crows
20. BEVERLY HILLS - Weezer
21. SHOW ME HOW TO LIVE – Audioslave
22. LONG VIEW – Green Day
23. BASKET CASE - Green Day
24. FLY AWAY – Lenny Kravitz
25. ARE YOU GONNA GO MY WAY - Lenny Kravitz
26. GET WHAT YOU NEED - Jet
27. VERTIGO – U2
28. WHAT’S MY AGE AGAIN – Blink 182
29. COLD HARD BITCH - Jet


Encore
30. SUCK MY KISS – Red Hot Chili Peppers
31. ALL MY LIFE - Foo Fighters

Do any of these songs seem too technical for a crowd to appreciate? I mean, looking at it from a drummer's point of view? I don't think so...

[matt11]

Drummers are the hardest thing to find. The ones with the skills tend to be very odd and contrary, the ones with good personalities generally don't have either the skills or the necessary commitment level. We've gone through 18 drummers in three years. Mostly because the drummers with the skills got frustrated at actually having to work hard to learn the songs (original material), since all the material is in combinations of odd time signatures, and good drummers seem to like to think they should just be able to walk in and, superior beings that they are, "do their thing." But we finally found a drummer who combines skill, personality and commitment two months ago, and are finally able to get some recording done. So hang in there. You'll find a good one eventually. Just gotta keep trying 'em out.

[cheezewiz]

It certainly doesn't seem like a "technical" list, but again, make sure and gear any setlists to what gets a crowd response.

[BassChuck]

As others have said, if 4 drummers all said relatively the same thing, I think it may be time to think it through.

How close to the recording are you trying to get? If you are asking the drummer to cop every lick, then there might be some things to this.

Drinking can be an issue. I'm not sure if it's professional to have a bottle of beer on stage... cups are OK. But drinking to the point that it is clear to the audience that a band member is drunk is probably not OK. Some places I'm sure its fine, but as a general rule, not drinking is probably better than drinking.

I'd love to talk to a drummer that thinks the band is too loud. Most drummers I know would be in heaven with a band that was very loud.

[IanStephenson]

On the too technical front - most of those are easy guitar/bass/vocal parts but a few have drum parts that are REALLY tough: I always get ready for a laugh whenever I hear a band start up Basketcase for example - the rest of the band is jamming out three chords while the drummer is usually falling off his stool! I've heard some real trainwrecks - only once can I remember a drummer actually nailing it.

On the other hand a good drummer should take up the challenge, not moan about it...

Ian

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

Well, let me start off by saying we just lost our drummer again! This is the fourth drummer we've gone through in the last year.

Like others have said, if four drummers have said relatively the same thing.....

Originally Posted by Daywalker

#1 - We're way too picky about the songs being "perfect" when it's only a cover. Didn't like the pressure...

Maybe you *are* being too picky. I never play covers note for note, that is for tribute bands. Many bands play the songs simpler live than in the studio.

I want to be able to add a bit of me to the songs. Plus, the audience dosen't care as long as you are close.

Now, being tight is a different matter.

Originally Posted by Daywalker

#2 - We play too loud...

If a drummer complains about this, turn down. Really, most bands have problems getting the drummer to play quieter.

Originally Posted by Daywalker

#3 - We were being "unprofessional" by drinking during the show.(everyone else that is, cause I don't drink.)

Hmmmm.... Did the drummers drink?

[KeithBMI]

To tell you the truth, I think I agree with everything your drummer said...

except for playing too loud.

I haven't listened to Blink 182 in a long time, but if he can't do it, then I see your problem with "techinal" songs.

[Naveed Afzal]

As far as #3 goes

My Singer doesnt smoke cigs, or weed before a show... and no one touches alcohol before a gig...

those werent 'rules' they were things i asked the band to do because i wanted to sound our best.

so perhaps he was on to something.

[Supergroup]

Why is it "not professional and not cool" to drink on stage? I don't know about you guys but most of the places I play, everyone is getting trashed and buying the band drinks. I usually go through a beer and bourbon/ ice during each set.(about an hour and a half a piece)... I have played private parties a bunch of times that it would be unprofessional to drink on stage... but that's it. So, why would it be unprofessional to drink on stage at a house party you are not getting paid for, or at a bar??.. (ofcourse, as long as the music isn't suffering).

thanks.

[Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Supergroup

Why is it "not professional and not cool" to drink on stage? I don't know about you guys but most of the places I play, everyone is getting trashed and buying the band drinks. I usually go through a beer and bourbon/ ice during each set.(about an hour and a half a piece)... I have played private parties a bunch of times that it would be unprofessional to drink on stage... but that's it. So, why would it be unprofessional to drink on stage at a house party you are not getting paid for, or at a bar??.. (ofcourse, as long as the music isn't suffering).

thanks.

Might be a bit of a tangent (and the subject has been covered in a pretty good thread here) but I've never liked drinking onstage for any gig.

At a friend's house party where you're not getting paid, I understand a lot of musicians might be fine with it, but I personally am not. My thinking is, if you're hoping that gig will lead to an actual paying gig, you should treat it the same way as you would a paying gig. You never know who'll be at that house party, maybe someone who's looking to book a wedding or a company party. And if they see you guys all drinking onstage, they might conclude that you're not the right band for the job.

I've gone to see a friend's band (he's the lead singer) at a bar gig, and it seemed like he took a big swig from his bottle of Bud during every guitar solo. I just thought it made him look like a bit of a loser.

I understand there's a difference of opinion on this, and that's fine, I'm just sharing mine. I save my drinking for the set breaks.

[Supergroup]

OK, I can see your point. Back to the original intent of the thread, sorry to hijack it.