serious opportunity- what to know legally - Page 2

**jive1** · #21 02-20-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddnidd1

First he doesn't tell you what percentage he expects and specifically he wants a cut of any 'advances'. An 'advance' is essentially a loan that you would have to pay back whether you make a profit or not.

Get a lawyer.

Which means that if you received an advance of $10,000, you'd have to pay the label back the $10K and give the 'agent' their cut. Say it's 20%,which means you're $12k out of pocket and in the red.

ddnidd1 · #22 02-20-2013, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

I can't afford a lawyer!

Unless it's possible to do a one-time consultation of some sort..?!

This is somebody who's worked in the business for decades, albeit as a musician who's toured with big acts and made A LOT, and as an engineer/studio owner. Which is why I'm kinda scratching my head, because like...shouldn't he know better?

What if I got a manager to basically...like....override him, or make some sort of counteroffer to "buy him out" somehow? Does it work that way? Is it worth trying to negotiate?

I just don't want to let go of this completely...I want the goddamn pie! Don't make me work at my day job and play bass for free until I'm another decade older wondering what happened and why the @#$ I live in this city. Just don't.

I like my job and all, but, really now...

The fact that this guy is apparently experienced makes his 'offer' smell all the more.

No offense intended, but you're obviously in way over your head. You would not only have to cut a deal with this clown, but also with a record company. There's an excellent chance you'll be taken to the cleaners and may very well end up playing for nothing with this band.

Most lawyers will do an initial consultation for free. But if this is the big chance you think it is, scrounge up the money to at least give yourself a fighting chance with a lawyer.

Signing contracts with your level of business knowledge and experience is Russian roulette with five of the chambers loaded.

Hobobob · #23 02-20-2013, 08:13 PM

Sounds like the dude is trying to take advantage of you, thinking that because he's been around the block and you haven't, you'll just go along with what he wants. If it were me, there'd be a voice in my head going 'Danger Will Robinson!!!'

bass81800 · #24 02-20-2013, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

A friend of mine has recommended me and is essentially acting as a sort of booking agent for me. He's asked for a percentage of whatever money I make.

I see a red flag here.

hernameisrio · #25 02-20-2013, 08:21 PM

I left him a voicemail saying that I need time to wrap my head around all this, that I need a clear time frame and something succinct in writing beyond just a math problem, and that if I'm gonna be giving him my money, there can't be any bull@#%.

If he gives me some dodgy answer, I'll ask for a more direct line of communication to the band. And if I have to get a friend- a real friend- to "represent" me, then I will.

Desperate? Uh, whatever dude. What would YOU do?! Okay? I've spent years being dirt poor and pretty miserable. I've spent thousands of dollars on music gear, let alone on a college education I'll never use. I'm 31 years old and I don't want to be 41 playing lame, unpaid, small-fry gigs in the city and spinning my wheels. So watch who you're calling desperate. Because, on one level? I am! I'll be the first to admit it! But you say "desperate" like it's a bad thing- what am I supposed to be, at this point in my life?!

Nagrom · #26 02-20-2013, 08:23 PM

Offer him 10%, but the first 100 grand is commission free. If he leads into that kind of dough, its worth it. If not, oh well... maybe buy him lunch for thinking of you.

hailet · #27 02-20-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor88

I know this isn't the input you are looking for, but IF the money they make minus the "cut" your friend wants is something you can love with, and IF the band plays music you are really excited about, and IF you think similar opportunities may be few and far between, then get it in writing and go for it.

However, I cannot see how this person is your "friend". I cannot fathom doing what he/she is doing if it were me and I knew of a great gig opportunity for a friend of mine. I'd give the reccomendation freely and enthusiastically, because that is what friends do.

+1

Joebarnes · #28 02-20-2013, 08:27 PM

What services is he providing for his (aack) 20% cut? Putting you in touch with a band for that high an ongoing percentage seems high.
Seems to me you bring the talent and the look that this unnamed band is looking for; so there has to be more that he would be providing you than him saying "Hey, I know this girl who plays bass".

Renaissance · #29 02-20-2013, 08:35 PM

This doesn't pass the smell test.

hernameisrio · #30 02-20-2013, 08:37 PM

We...have a weird history. Especially as of late. He is a "friend" in the sense of, the kind who can be notoriously impossible to get along with, who breaks plans, who gives people the silent treatment when there is too much going on in his life, all the while claiming, "I want to see you happy."

I wanted to try and leave that part out but I guess I can't, because I feel it does make a difference with this whole story, unfortunately. To say the least, the fact that he's still hanging this in my face is kinda bittersweet and quite surreal.

So, part of my voicemail included the caveat, "If I am going to be giving you my money, I don't want any drama, bull@$, or tension between us."

Because, um, I don't. After some of what I've dealt with at various studios and in various bands?! Hell no! If I'm gonna be diving into this business via baptism by fire, I am NOT going to start out on rocky territory. If I'm gonna be giving someone my money, I want to feel comfortable and at ease with them, especially in the context of uprooting my life and starting over and moving across the country, et cetera.

You know, just like how you would feel with anybody you're paying to work with you. I have had way too many things in my life sidelined by personal drama...I am not gonna let this be one of them. If it means being a little more confrontational now to avoid the hassle later, then so be it.

I might not understand the music business, but 1) who does?! and 2) at least I can make sure that whoever I'm dealing with, has a basic level of respect for me and knows that I will not be strung along.

I guess some could argue that if it's purely business, I should just take the money and run, and deal with it as such. Which I plan to do, but I figured I might as well throw all the cards on the table first...if only so that he understands I'm serious (and don't call me Shirley!). But I think we ALL know that it's NEVER that simple.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking! :P

**jive1** · #31 02-20-2013, 08:38 PM

Here's something to consider......

The fact that he mentions getting a cut of the advance tells me that the guy is clueless or being unscrupulous. As mentioned, an advance is a loan. If he says he's experienced and doesn't know that, then his experience is BS. If he is indeed experienced, then he's putting you in a situation where he knows that you could wind up in the red.

My advice is to look at this like any business opportunity. Say a friend tells me of a great opportunity and wants a finders fee that consists of a 20% part of my proceeds. I don't have the money in hand, so I take out a loan from the bank and my friend wants to take a cut from the loan, but I'm on the hook for the entire loan amount. I take out a $10K loan, and it winds up being a 12K loan that I only get 10K out of. Now say, I made $10,000 that month, but my operating costs were $8000 but according to my 20% deal I owe the guy $2K leaving me with no profit.

There are deals you can't afford to lose, but there are also deals that you can't afford to make.

hernameisrio · #32 02-20-2013, 08:41 PM

jive1, thank you for that perspective, as math was never my strong point.

God, what a week. I quit one of my bands, I'm cramming like mad for the Apple certification tests so that I can make some progress with my life and maybe get paid more, I just have so much going on....and as for my social/personal life, let's just say I'm cleaning house and it's weird and sort of horrible. In the face of pretty gnarly winter depression, I've been really thinking hard about who I want in my life and what sorts of roles I want them in.

So when stuff like this happens, it's...weird and stressful, even though the "dream" factor of it is sort of exciting.

ddnidd1 · #33 02-20-2013, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

We...have a weird history. Especially as of late. He is a "friend" in the sense of, the kind who can be notoriously impossible to get along with, who breaks plans, who gives people the silent treatment when there is too much going on in his life, all the while claiming, "I want to see you happy."

So, part of my voicemail included the caveat, "If I am going to be giving you my money, I don't want any drama, bull@$, or tension between us."

I might not understand the music business, but 1) who does?! and 2) at least I can make sure that whoever I'm dealing with, has a basic level of respect for me and knows that I will not be strung along.
:P

This guy sounds like the classic USER/D#CK. And I'm sure leveling with him will suddenly change his personality.

The music business, in MANY instances, is absolutely cutthroat. It seems like your emphasis is on finding a trustworthy buddy - good luck.

hernameisrio · #34 02-20-2013, 08:55 PM

Well, it's worth prioritizing....considering that if he's NOT trustworthy, I'll end up broke and miserable anyway...right?!

Renaissance · #35 02-20-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Well, it's worth prioritizing....considering that if he's NOT trustworthy, I'll end up broke and miserable anyway...right?!

WRONG!

This is why you need an attorney. If this whole thing is real and "dude" turns out to be untrustworthy, you do not need to end up broke and miserable. Protect yourself!

I'm sorry but this whole scenario seems extremely shakey and you seem to be only seeing a "great opportunity". Use your brain and not your heart to pursue this.

Happy belated birthday.

Nagrom · #36 02-20-2013, 09:16 PM

Do you really want this guy as your business partner? Besides, if he's heard of this band with the wonderful opportunity, so have others.

SLaPiNFuNK · #37 02-20-2013, 09:22 PM

There is nothing unreasonable about having an agent... 10% is common but 8% is more reasonable.

However... An agent finds you work and negotiates more money for you... It sounds like you already have the gig and the $ is already worked out for you. In your case he is just taking. You don't know if this contract your band is signing restricts you from any other work that your said "agent" can potentially get you.

Joe Nerve · #38 02-20-2013, 09:23 PM

Only read up to posts 18 and 19, both of which sum up my thoughts. I don't genearlly call people douches, but that's the first word that came to mind with the situation you have going on here. What he's asking is ridiculous.

That being said, I'm a pretty honest and straightforward guy, but your pal would inspire me bigtime to make up a contract that will be pulling one over on him. If things go great you can always throw him some money and even up the score, but I wouldn't sign any contract that couldn't easily be gotten out of. And if you plan to move forward going along with this guy's wishes, you're going to have no choice but to get yourself a lawyer. You have to. Period. There are entertainment lawyers who will work pro bono, you just might have to search a bit.

Like Jive said earlier on, I've recommended and been recommended for many gigs. I never considered for a second asking for money, and some of the gigs I'm talking about were pretty big deals. Coincidentally, I'm in a similar situation as yours also. A drummer I play with is excellent friends with a dude who just kinda hit the bigtime, and he's pushing to get me into his band. He's not asking for anything in return. If I got the gig, I'd take him out to dinner - and he probably wouldn't even accept.

Get a contract going that you can easily get out of, audition for the band, and be done with it. I'm going to guess it has to be done soon, as I can't imagine these people are going to wait forever. You're not even sure yet you'd get the gig.

Don't want to be a downer, but something seems way off with this whole thing. I hope it all works out, but don't get yourself too excited until you get your first check. And get it cashed.

hernameisrio · #39 02-20-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Get a contract going that you can easily get out of, audition for the band, and be done with it. I'm going to guess it has to be done soon, as I can't imagine these people are going to wait forever. You're not even sure yet you'd get the gig.

Don't want to be a downer, but something seems way off with this whole thing. I hope it all works out, but don't get yourself too excited until you get your first check. And get it cashed.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking, too.

Thanks!

**jive1** · #40 02-20-2013, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Well, it's worth prioritizing....considering that if he's NOT trustworthy, I'll end up broke and miserable anyway...right?!

Well, you can be in a 2 foot hole, a 6 foot hole, or a 12 foot hole. But, they're all holes right?

First rule of holes:
When you're in one, stop digging...........