Shared Band PA

topper · #1 04-02-2008, 07:35 PM

Ok, my band wants to upgrade their PA. Actually, they're talking about pretty much replacing it altogether.

One member wants to front the money, then get paid back out of gig money over the next few gigs.

I've never liked the whole, communal shared band PA thing. I find that it is messy when a band member leaves or the band breaks up.

I don't mind chipping in, but I kind of want to know what's mine.

I don't know how to broach this with my band mates without sounding like an a**hole.

I was the last to join the band about a year ago, they've been together nearly ten years. They never had a bass player before me, so I'm kind of in the "last hired, first fired" sort of scenario.

I don't want to come off sounding like I'm not committed to the band or like I'm greedy and just in this for gig money.

Any ideas?

nsmar4211 · #2 04-02-2008, 08:17 PM

How about just telling them you'd feel more comfortable buying your own subs and then they are yours to take care of and carry around (and take with if need be)?

If they aren't comfortable with you owning a piece.....maybe its not the right group for you. All our members own their own stuff.... and unless your gonna get a written contract that they'll buy you out of you chose to part ways, you could stand to lose a lot of money!

Jason Hollar · #3 04-02-2008, 08:19 PM

Yeah -- buy some subs -- or the power amp! Anything that will work as your rig if you split!

Munjibunga · #4 04-02-2008, 08:21 PM

Well, you could let him buy the PA, then have him rent it back to the band until he's covered the nut. It always works better when one person owns the PA. That way you don't have any arguments when the band breaks up, which it will.

topper · #5 04-03-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Well, you could let him buy the PA, then have him rent it back to the band until he's covered the nut.

This sort of seems the same as just paying her back out of the gig money.

I like the idea of us each owning a piece. We don't have any need for subs, I don't run through the PA and the only other instrument is an acoustic guitar. And even if we did, subs by themselves wouldn't do me any good. However, I could use a mixer. I dabble in some recording and could use a new mixer anyway. I'll offer to buy the mixer and suggest the other members buy some powered cabs and/or monitors.

I'm still nervous about coming across like an a**hole or looking like I'm not committed because I'm the new guy and am talking about what happens when the band breaks up (or someone leaves). I guess there's really no way around that though, I'll just have to be as tactful as possible.

guy n. cognito · #6 04-03-2008, 07:36 AM

Communal band property is the BIGGEST mistake a band can make. Don't fall for it, because you will regret is some day. Either one member should own the equipment, or each member should buy specific pieces.

Deacon_Blues · #7 04-03-2008, 08:01 AM

Let her buy the PA, then let her take a slightly bigger $$$ share of every gig. I do think the best solution is that one person owns it all.

Or then you buy a mixer or whatever, and the rest of the band buy some other stuff. However, I think that in that case, it should be a communal decision WHAT you buy. The mixer, speakers and all other stuff should chosen so that everyone is happy with what you buy.

Jimmyplaysabass · #8 04-03-2008, 08:06 AM

tell her to buy it, and if you want help her out.

This isn't a dick move. you said yourself that you were "last hired, first fired". So your not well established, and if you split with the mixer that would be crippling. You need to look out for number one, because in the end this band may fall through, and if it does you don't want to get screwed

lowfreek · #9 04-03-2008, 08:21 AM

If you've ever been faced with the scenario of leaving a band with a communally-owned PA, the answer to this question is very clear. Getting your investment (or even a reasonable part of it) back upon your departure is a pure BITCH. Everyone has the best intentions when entering into this type of deal, but odds are your departure will not be under the best of circumstances. Not saying that it's impossible to make an amicable break and recoup your investment, but it ain't really in the cards.

If you own a couple or few pieces of the PA, you just take them with you, or sell them to the band when you leave. Both scenarios are much easier to do than the other way around (trust me...

)

SteveC · #10 04-03-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Well, you could let him buy the PA, then have him rent it back to the band until he's covered the nut. It always works better when one person owns the PA. That way you don't have any arguments when the band breaks up, which it will.

Yep.

It does not work to own it as a band. It just doesn't. No matter how good your intensions are going in to it.

The band will break up. It may or may not be a friendly break up, so the less there is to deal with the better.

topper · #11 04-03-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

Let her buy the PA, then let her take a slightly bigger $$$ share of every gig.

Again, this seems the same as a communally owned PA. She wouldn't actually be investing much more than about $1000. My bass and amp easily cost around $2k. So it doesn't make sense to me to give her an extra cut of the gig money. She wouldn't be providing any more equipment for the band than anyone else.

In the end, we're talking about $250 for my share. I don't do this for the money and I wouldn't be hurting for the cash. I'd be really upset with myself if I lost my place in the band (not likely) or damaged my friendship with my band mates (possible) over $250.

But, you're all confirming my worst fears about communally owned equipment. It gives me the hebegeebeez and it is re-assuring to know I'm not the only one.

I think I can broach this subject with them and just say I know a lot of bands where communally owned gear turned into a nightmare and that we shouldn't do it.

nsmar4211 · #12 04-03-2008, 04:16 PM

The PA for the WHOLE band is only going to run $1000? Errrrr you guys must be getting a heck of a deal.
Do you sing in this group? Cause if you don't, and you're saying you don't run bass through the PA and don't want to, then they shouldn't be asking you to buy *any* part of the PA. If you do sing (and therefor use the PA), then buy your speaker.......or your monitor......or something.
I wouldn't ask the drummer to buy my cables......every man for himself.
In my group, I will eventually have to buy part of the PA... because we're wanting to run me at least partly through the PA. However, until it's time for me to buy subs, the rest of the PA the guitar player and singer are buying.......because they're the only ones using it! If the band boots you because of this....it wasn't the band for you.
And I'd still like to know exactly what kind of PA you're gonna do for $1000......I was thinking PA like, oh, couple of speakers, at least two monitors, a strong powered mixer......... not adding up to 1000

. Espically when you start figuring in cables and cases if you get em....Might want to look into what they're planning on buying.
Honestly..... its a lot harder to get money back...... tell em you'd rather be in charge of your own equipment than pieces of other peoples

ThunderLizard · #13 04-03-2008, 04:30 PM

Topper-
You might want to just kick in or offer to buy a component, like a monitor or a microphone.
But you're right, don't spoil something over $250. You'll make that back quick enough.

modulusman · #14 04-03-2008, 07:37 PM

You might be able to get a decent mixer for $1000. Any PA that you buy for that price will be junk.

Munjibunga · #15 04-03-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

This sort of seems the same as just paying her back out of the gig money.

I like the idea of us each owning a piece. We don't have any need for subs, I don't run through the PA and the only other instrument is an acoustic guitar. And even if we did, subs by themselves wouldn't do me any good. However, I could use a mixer. I dabble in some recording and could use a new mixer anyway. I'll offer to buy the mixer and suggest the other members buy some powered cabs and/or monitors.

I'm still nervous about coming across like an a**hole or looking like I'm not committed because I'm the new guy and am talking about what happens when the band breaks up (or someone leaves). I guess there's really no way around that though, I'll just have to be as tactful as possible.

I'm just saying it's going to be a problem when you break up. I own all of our band's PA systems and it works fine. I don't charge rent, but I could. If she rented it to the band it could be for a smaller amout of money than if you were all chipping in to buy it.

topper · #16 04-04-2008, 07:14 AM

This thread is starting to get derailed, but I do want to answer these two questions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsmar4211

The PA for the WHOLE band is only going to run $1000? Errrrr you guys must be getting a heck of a deal.

We're a small mostly acoustic group. 100 people is a large crowd for us. A 8 channel mixer and a couple of powered cabs can be had on Musicians Friend or AMS or anywhere really, brand new for well under $1500. We would be keeping our existing monitors, mics, cables, stands, etc. So as I said, her investment wouldn't be much more than $1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsmar4211

Do you sing in this group? Cause if you don't, and you're saying you don't run bass through the PA and don't want to, then they shouldn't be asking you to buy *any* part of the PA.

I've heard this argument before, both here on TB and elsewhere. I've never understood it.

The people who come to see us aren't coming to see the Topper Bass Show and the people who pay us aren't paying for the Topper Bass Show either. They're coming to see the band. Without the whole band there is no show. In order for the band to perform it needs PA. Whether or not there's a cable connecting my amp to the PA is irrelevant in my opinion.

No PA = No Show
No Show = I don't play
Therefore: No PA = I don't play

So I need the PA in order to perform whether I'm running through it or not. (this could be a whole other thread by itself, feel free to start one if you want to discuss it)

I also don't necessarily expect my band mates to match me dollar for dollar on equipment expenditures. I have pretty bad GAS. I think it is unreasonable to expect them to keep up with my insanity. Plus, we're all of slightly different economic means.

What's important is that we work together to make sure the band's needs are met and that we minimize any unpleasantries around shared gear when the band breaks up or a member leaves.

Like I said in an earlier post. I'm glad to hear my nervousness about this is justified. I'll find a way to delicately broach the subject with my mates.

Thanks all!

Pbassred · #17 04-04-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Again, this seems the same as a communally owned PA. She wouldn't actually be investing much more than about $1000. My bass and amp easily cost around $2k. So it doesn't make sense to me to give her an extra cut of the gig money. She wouldn't be providing any more equipment for the band than anyone else.

+1
Why do singers think that the ownership of a mic is a big deal? If its vocals only, I.e one channel let them pay for a gig rack and 2 speakers - AND drive it to the gig.

Personally I own a rig but its big enough for a whole band - say 10 channel. Thats the time you need to be talking about clawback. Its mostly to cover storage, haulage, maintenance and setup.

If I was in a stable band (that we all played through) I would much rather each member was responcible for an individual piece of kit.

When you get realy big, hire a pro.

Laserman · #18 04-04-2008, 10:53 PM

One word of Advice

DON"T DO IT !!!!! I've been down that road before. You are about to get screwed. Let them own the PA and YOU get your cut of any gig money. If that's no good LEAVE THE BAND. The Person pushing this type of agenda will end up owning it all and You'll end up with the garbage he/she doesn't want. Offer to buy some piece or pieces yourself, a mixer or a power amp, or monitors, whatever and let others buy other parts. This way if the band breaks up you walk away with Your mixer. Communial PA is a Codeword for "You're gonna gt burned".

Barry

bradjonesbass · #19 04-04-2008, 11:16 PM

you can get a pretty decent Carvin PA rig with monitors for around a grand. And it will kill the stuff for the same price from mf or ams. Our lead singer bought the pa for the band and doesn't get paid extra. Band breaks up and he takes the PA with him, same as me with my bass rig or the drummer with his kit. I did buy the mic I use for background vocals, but I also use it in my home recording rig.

modulusman · #20 04-05-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradjonesbass

you can get a pretty decent Carvin PA rig with monitors for around a grand. And it will kill the stuff for the same price from mf or ams. Our lead singer bought the pa for the band and doesn't get paid extra. Band breaks up and he takes the PA with him, same as me with my bass rig or the drummer with his kit. I did buy the mic I use for background vocals, but I also use it in my home recording rig.

The cheapest Carvin PA with monitors I can find is about $1200. It doesn't have enough power and is a POS in my opinion.