Should a bassist get songwriting credit...

[Busker]

If he/she comes up with a bass line for a song that's already written? By already written I mean chords, lyrics, melody.

I have this opportunity to work with a pair of young songwriters - one sings, one plays guitar. They actually have potential I think, but haven't found a bassist as yet. I've heard some demos. They are guitar and vocals, no other instruments - at least not on the demos I've heard.
The guitarist asked me to try to come up with some lines to some of their songs with the goal of performing them live with a full band - perhaps me on bass, I don't know yet. They have done some gigs, but AFAIK, acoustic coffee house-type gigs (nothing wrong with that, I just don't think they've had a full band behind them yet).

I told him I'd give it a shot and try to come up with some good bass lines. Even if I fail to impress, it would be good experience. Better than what I'm doing at the moment, which is nothing.

[Inflin]

Basically, in the eyes of the law, royalty agencies, and record labels, the main melody, and the lyrics, equal the written song. Whoever came up with them, or put work into them, owns the song.

[jady]

In this situation no, You are being hired as a sideman.

If you were a part of the band and all came up with the song together then yes.

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by jady

In this situation no, You are being hired as a sideman.

If you were a part of the band and all came up with the song together then yes.

Even in that sort of situation- look at how Jamerson was paid for all the Motown stuff- all the arrangements were done by the house band, with just basic chord charts as the framework- the people providing the framework got the songwriting credit, but all the parts- including the "hooks" were the house band.

[ryco]

In general no, you don't receive a songwriting credit for coming up with a bass part.

You could try neogotiating with the songwriters. If you came up with a hellacious bass part that turned the song into a hit I think you might negotiate for credit/royalties.
I don't know how you would prove your contribution or protect your part though. I would say get the agreement in writing with the help of a music lawyer.

Maybe a music lawyer will chime in. I'd be interested to know

[Busker]

Thank you for your advice. And it makes sense. John Paul Jones didn't get any writing credit that I know of for all those bass lines in Zeppelin.

I was just wondering, never having tried this before.

[Fnord Explorer]

Originally Posted by Busker

Thank you for your advice. And it makes sense. John Paul Jones didn't get any writing credit that I know of for all those bass lines in Zeppelin.

I was just wondering, never having tried this before.

John Paul Jones got quite a bit of credit on some of those Zeppelin songs, like "Black Dog".

[Busker]

Originally Posted by Fnord Explorer

John Paul Jones got quite a bit of credit on some of those Zeppelin songs, like "Black Dog".

Writing credit? Most every song in their catalog is listed as being written by Page/Plant.

Sure, I know everyone acknowledges his important contributions now.

[rusty66]

Dont bet on it! Ask them before you go into the studio, if they say no to credit, ask them for a fee to record your lines. Been there, done that, still waiting......

Rusty

[Hawaii Islander]

If you write the bass lines, you should get the credit. If you play basslines they write, they get the credit. Just make sure you get them to include your name when submitting for publication. I would get them to acknowledge what your contribution to and compensation for the composition will be, in writing. JMO

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by Hawaii Islander

If you write the bass lines, you should get the credit. If you play basslines they write, they get the credit. Just make sure you get them to include your name when submitting for publication. I would get them to acknowledge what your contribution to and compensation for the composition will be, in writing. JMO

Normally "no" if you are hired. BUT if you are asked to come up with a line...you can ask for a credit, BUT, you need to have it in writing B4 note one is recorded.

I personally have been burnt (3rd degree) by this very issue...wont happen again!

From Interview with LaMarquis Jefferson-Atlanta session player

How do you ensure you get credit for your work?
When you walk into a studio and the producer is sitting there with a drum machine going, and he says, “Play what you feel,” at that moment—which is a defining moment—you have to look him in the eye and ask, “Are you asking me to write a bass line, or are you going to tell me what you want?” If he’s asking you to write a bass line, then at that point, you are considered a co-writer on that track.

The full interview is here: http://www.bassplayer.com/article/se...is/may-05/8550

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by otis_thick

Normally "no" if you are hired. BUT if you are asked to come up with a line...you can ask for a credit, BUT, you need to have it in writing B4 note one is recorded.

I personally have been burnt (3rd degree) by this very issue...wont happen again!

Even if its with friends, its your job to protect you! It is very exciting and flattering to be asked to play but the reason your are recording is to hopefully make MONEY. When MONEY is envolved....Its ALL business! Please! Don't take this lightly!

Always remember its Show BUSINESS!

[GrooveBass]

My opinion on bassline credits is that if you wrote the bassline, no matter how simple, you should have at least a small credit. You contributed to that song being what it is. If you come in and learn the part from the writer, and play it, then you didn't write your line, so no credit.

[51m0n]

Never write a note without clearing this up first (been burnt too).

If they arent paying for your time as an hourly ask for a royalty, nicely, but ask, since otherwise they are taking advantage. Even if you aren't writing. It was good enough for the Doors, gentlemen, its good enough for you....

I've walked on more than one occasion from an audition I had got since it was assumed I'd be doing it all for love or some other hippy horsesh**.

Luck!

[darkfinger]

Originally Posted by GrooveBass

My opinion on bassline credits is that if you wrote the bassline, no matter how simple, you should have at least a small credit. You contributed to that song being what it is. If you come in and learn the part from the writer, and play it, then you didn't write your line, so no credit.

I agree with this, except if you come in and follow the guitar player. At that point the band could argue that you`re just playing the guitar line on bass and IMHO they would be right. However, you as a bassist did it so you should get paid, however no writing credit. On the other hand, if you so much throw a single octave in there or the smallest little flavour than you are entitled to a writing credit.

[basslyon]

If we're talking song writing credits lets have a look at gnr. consider a song like estranged. For me the song is all about slashes lead work (shut up and stop whinging axl) yet song writing is credited to rose and in the sleeve he thanks slash for coming up with the lead melodies yet he's not mentioned as a writer of the song.

Truth be told - if the song is written when you walk in to the room and you just do your bit with it, you didn't write it. You did have some part in the arrangement but that is all look at a cover album like garage inc. or renegades or eMotive. Songs are written by there respective authors and arranged bt metallica/ratm/apc etc.

For my final point. Jaco didn't write the chicken nor anywhere is credited with doing so despite the awesome and innovative bass work.

so no. as a bassist/songwriter i must tell you, you didn't write these songs

[Music Attorney]

Originally Posted by ryco

Maybe a music lawyer will chime in.

Gee ....... if only we knew one ;-)

Originally Posted by ryco

I'd be interested to know

Not exactly sure what you’re asking.

The title of this thread asks “Should a bassist get songwriting credit.” The word “should” is prescriptive and not descriptive. That is, what’s being asked is how things should be and not how they are. Myself and others have posted extensively about whether a bass player is legally entitled to a portion of the copyright in a musical composition and, absent very rare circumstances, my personal opinion is that the answer is no. Whether that’s the way it should be is a whole different story.

As suggested herein, the copyright splits in the musical composition can certainly be altered by agreement among the writers IN WRITING. In fact, new producers/writers are often “asked” to share the copyright in their song with the recording artist. It’s simply a cost of doing business with that artist. If you don’t have much going on, and you have a chance to get your song on an album that’s going to sell a million copies, then some writers/producers feel it’s better to have 80% of a big pool of money than 100% of no money. To be sure, there are plenty of big producers who are also “asked” to share the copyright, but they simply have different options in dealing with the situation as opposed to new or less established producers/writers.

Best,
MA

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Even though I write all the lyrics and all my basslines from scratch, I still maintain that my band's stuff is done as a WHOLE (i.e. - guitar parts are by guitarists and drum beats by the drummer) and they get cred for writing too.

I find it to be more fair that way =/

[Howlin' Hanson]

Originally Posted by GrooveBass

My opinion on bassline credits is that if you wrote the bassline, no matter how simple, you should have at least a small credit. You contributed to that song being what it is. If you come in and learn the part from the writer, and play it, then you didn't write your line, so no credit.

And that credit would be for ARRANGEMENT, not for writing the song.

If you didn't write the melody, lyric or chord structure, but you did create a cool bass part based on the chord structure someone else wrote, you created an arrangement. You didn't write the actual song according to legal standards for songwriting.

"Should" as mentioned, is another matter.

[JAUQO III-X]

Things have really changed in the last 25 years in regards to where songwriting credit goes these days and how that credit is dispersed.