Should a Hired Gun Have Standards?

[stringtapper]

So here's the story: There is a guy I know who lives in my area who is from my home town and whom I've known for many years but kind of somewhere in between friend and acquaintance. I never knew the guy played music at all (the 90s are sometimes hazy for me) until he called me recently to see if I would be interested in subbing for his bassist in his reggae band in which he plays guitar and sings. He sends me a recording of some of his originals and a list of covers, everything from classic reggae to classic rock tunes played in reggae and ska styles to some newish pop stuff like Sublime. The instruments in the recording are passable, but the vocals… dear god the vocals… I figure what the heck, it's work and it's just a sub.

So I learn most of the tunes a couple of weeks before the gig and we have a rehearsal. First of all the rate for the gig was supposed to be $100. He shows up at the rehearsal with a DJ who is supposed to spin samples and scratch while we play. Of course this also lowers the rate from $100 to $75 because the band is now a four-piece. Anyway, we start rehearsing and the drummer, who the friend has used before, can't keep time. Guy is dragging on every tune. Now mind you, with my standards the drummer not keeping time was only one thing wrong, the vocals were just as bad of an offense in my humble (though sufficiently qualified) musical opinion. So the friend essentially fires the drummer right there but does it by telling everyone that the gig is cancelled, but then confides to me that it's not cancelled and he's going to find another drummer.

I play in a sort of jazz/funk band as my own personal project and I figure my drummer could use the gig so I mention him and we set up another rehearsal with my drummer. Rehearsal goes well (instrumentally) and we're on the for the gig.

We play the gig and it goes ok for what it is. For the friend it seems the gig is the end-all be-all of musical experiences and he is "pumped." The drummer and I get our money and take off, figuring that was an interesting experience but glad it's over. Ever since the gig I have been getting phones calls and texts from the friend talking about recording a new "demo", asking if I know how to write songs and asking for us to play another gig. Basically it looks like he's thinking of us as being part of the band. Mind you, I have no idea what he's planning to tell the bassist that I thought I was only subbing for.

So here's the deal: the drummer and I don't mind playing gigs with this friend (the drummer is from the same home town) as long as they pay, but neither of us is interested in it being a "band" situation. In other words we would rather remain hired guns with no commitments beyond each gig we commit to.

Now there are several reasons for this. My drummer is a guitarist first and has two other art (read: non-paying) projects outside of our funk band. He's committed and is only interested in doing paid gigs outside of those projects. I am only interested in paid gigs period. The other, and probably biggest, factor is the friend himself. If you'll excuse my graduate music degree snobbery I frankly do not consider him to be a musician, but rather a guy who can play some guitar and (barely) sing a few pop songs. He does, however, seem to be able to book paid gigs, at least for now.

I've been in this type of situation before and I wonder if others have too. You know, a person whose enthusiasm for music and the idea of playing in a band outweighs their actual musical talent? In the past people like this just disappear, but I knew this guy before so I'm wondering how best to handle it. Do I grin and bear it, try to keep a straight face, and go ahead with the gigs as long as they pay? Also, how best to lay down the rules and let the guy know that I'm (we're; at this point the drummer and I are on the same page) not interested in it being a band situation? I don't want to hurt the guy's feelings so just telling him he sucks but I will gladly play with him for money doesn't seem right. Even though that's exactly what I would be doing!

I freelance several musical gigs: bass, choral, low brass, arranging, and music notation typesetting. I look at my work as me using a set of skills I have developed through hard work and schooling in order to provide a service. Liking any specific music I'm working on isn't a prerequisite but it certainly is a bonus. But where to draw the line when you're working in an environment where the musicianship of other performers is not up to your standard?

Ok that was way longer than I thought it would be. Any experiences or stories of similar situations most welcome!

tl;dr

If something sucks should one go ahead and be a part of it just to make money?

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally Posted by stringtapper

I've been in this type of situation before and I wonder if others have too. You know, a person whose enthusiasm for music and the idea of playing in a band outweighs their actual musical talent?

That describes pretty much everyone who ever became a successful musician in a band.
Charlie Parker got boo'd off the stage, but worked on it.
If you don't like it and don't need the bread, work with those at your level or beyond.
If you do stick around, be honest and help him develop if he will listen (if he's serious he will... if not, well, back to how badly you need money).

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by stringtapper

If something sucks should one go ahead and be a part of it just to make money?

The problem is if you sell out to play crap in a bar band you may be selling out for less than minimum wage ...

[stringtapper]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

That describes pretty much everyone who ever became a successful musician in a band.
Charlie Parker got boo'd off the stage, but worked on it.

Good point.

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

If you do stick around, be honest and help him develop if he will listen (if he's serious he will... if not, well, back to how badly you need money).

Probably the most measured response. As long as there's money to be made and he can improve then it could be win/win. I get the sense he may be aware that the vocals are the weak link.

[onosson]

Here's my usual spiel to people who indicate (subtly or not) that they'd like me in their band:

"I've got enough projects that I'm involved in, in and out of music, that I'm not really looking to join anything on a long-term basis. Things may change in the future, but I can't make any commitments to be a "member" of any band or project right now, beyond the ones I'm already in. If you need someone on a gig once in a while, you can always feel free to give me a call, and I'll be happy to take it if I have the time."

There is no reason to feel that you need to comment on anyone's skills or talent, unless they outright ask you to. And if they do, I would be honest but respectful. If they need to work on stuff (such as vocals) it will only help them in the long run to know that.

[southwind]

Welcome to the musethick bithnusss!

[stringtapper]

Originally Posted by Ric5

The problem is if you sell out to play crap in a bar band you may be selling out for less than minimum wage ...

And because of the addition of the DJ I'm playing for under what I'm used to in the bar scene. These days every little bit helps, but really I can't afford to put in the time to be anything more than a hired player.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by stringtapper

So here's the deal: the drummer and I don't mind playing gigs as long as they pay, but neither of us is interested in it being a "band" situation. In other words we would rather remain hired guns with no commitments beyond each gig we commit to.

This. Say this to the guy. Honesty is the best policy. Quote him a minimum for gigs, a minimum for rehearsal, and a minimum for studio time.

[Tom_RCJ]

Originally Posted by stringtapper

I don't want to hurt the guy's feelings so just telling him he sucks but I will gladly play with him for money doesn't seem right. Even though that's exactly what I would be doing!

Only the truth is truthful. Being untruthful doesn't serve anyone in the long run. Tell him exactly how you feel. You don't think the talent level is within your comfort zone. Tell him exactly what level of commitment you are comfortable with. Let him know where you stand. Otherwise, you're opening yourself and everyone involved up to needless drama. Just be forthright and understanding. It's better for everyone that way. Nothing kills the mood more than drama.

[singlemalt]

Why would you do it if you don't like it? You gave it a generous amount of time and got the guy through his gig. Seems like a lot of trouble for $75, but you gave it a shot.

Say you are too busy, bow out now, and you've helped the guy through his tight spot. Giving any sign that you'd join up and then quitting will leave sour grapes.

Yeah, you should have standards. Seems like putting up with less than great playing should pay more, not less.

Maybe a sliding scale: more suckiness = I need more $$$ (low fun factor) and WOW! these guys rock! = I might just do this for drinks! (fun factor is off the charts)

I really liked DARK's response! Is the guy worth investing in?

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

This. Say this to the guy. Honesty is the best policy. Quote him a minimum for gigs, a minimum for rehearsal, and a minimum for studio time.

Exactly, precisely, verbatim what I was gonna say.

[noiseguy]

He can book paid gigs. You need money. You have apparently also greatly improved his band so he's inclined to work with you.

So... What's the issue?

[Richland123]

I do hired gun gigs and tell people that as long as it does not interfere with my band's bookings (which come first if I get one) and I have time to work out songs if necessary, I will do it but not as a permanent band member. So, don't book gigs and assume I will be available without asking me first.

[RockBassNow]

It's easy enough to say you are too busy to commit to a band but you will play gigs when your available. Just negotiate a price per gig and stick to it. Everyone at some point has taken gigs they aren't totally excited about for the money, and as previous posts have said, maybe playing with more experienced musicians will help the singer him develop as well. And if not, well you still have your $100 a night.

[jmattbassplaya]

I've been there before. To me, those situations are never worth their time, even if you're hitting 2 out of the 3 of the holy band trifecta (that being good pay, good hang, and good music). I just can't stand it if the music isn't good because that means a few things:

1. I'm playing music that I don't enjoy playing,
2. I'm playing music that isn't helping me grow as a player, and
3. I'm playing music that others can negatively judge me and my abilities on

I simply could never be happy if I were to find myself in that situation unless the pay was super good. Even then, I doubt I'd be that thrilled to show up on a gig. Furthermore, if the music isn't there then I don't know how the money could be there either, but that's just my view on things.

It's up to you as to whether or not you want to continue in that band. Personally, I'd level with the guy and say something along the lines of, "Hey man, I know you're really excited about the potential of this group and would like to have me involved, but I honestly only do work as a hired gun. If you'd really like me to play with you guys then I am more than willing to cut out time to rehearse for any paying gigs you may get, but I really can't commit to anything beyond that since I tend to stay really busy most weeks. Hope you understand."

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by noiseguy

He can book paid gigs. You need money. You have apparently also greatly improved his band so he's inclined to work with you.

So... What's the issue?

The biggest one for me is that other musicians on the scene may see how bad we are and instantly assume I'm a bad player or that I don't hold myself to a level higher than the band they're currently watching me play in on stage. A musicians reputation is everything in this business, and only good players get spots in good bands that get paid good money.

[stringtapper]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

3. I'm playing music that others can negatively judge me and my abilities on

That pretty much nails the reason for my apprehension. I live in a town full of talented musicians. I know in a way it's a superficial ego-driven thing, but I would have been embarrassed to be seen by one of my colleagues playing with this guy the way he sounds now.

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

if the music isn't there then I don't know how the money could be there either, but that's just my view on things.

Well judging from the one gig I'd say there was enough energy for a bunch of drunk people to have fun and keep drinking so the owner seemed pleased. The drummer, DJ, and I did some instrumental improvisations while the singer/guitarist was fumbling for tunes that seemed to get a good response. Actually, if that's what the whole band was I'd totally be on board!

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by onosson

Here's my usual spiel to people who indicate (subtly or not) that they'd like me in their band:

"I've got enough projects that I'm involved in, in and out of music, that I'm not really looking to join anything on a long-term basis. Things may change in the future, but I can't make any commitments to be a "member" of any band or project right now, beyond the ones I'm already in. If you need someone on a gig once in a while, you can always feel free to give me a call, and I'll be happy to take it if I have the time."

There is no reason to feel that you need to comment on anyone's skills or talent, unless they outright ask you to. And if they do, I would be honest but respectful. If they need to work on stuff (such as vocals) it will only help them in the long run to know that.

This sounds quite reasonable, and is basically what I tell bands. I make sure they understand that there will come a point where I have to turn down a gig due to other commitments or whatever, and that the band would benefit from developing a list of sidemen who can fill in.

If it's a really terrible band, the time when I might have to turn down a gig, might come sooner rather than later.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by stringtapper

That pretty much nails the reason for my apprehension. I live in a town full of talented musicians. I know in a way it's a superficial ego-driven thing, but I would have been embarrassed to be seen by one of my colleagues playing with this guy the way he sounds now.

I definitely know that feeling, too I personally don't think it's too much of an ego thing, and even if it is it's for good reason. I'd be embarrassed myself, and I'd also be concerned that it might affect my ability to pick up a good gig. I'd hate for a good local band leader to be looking out for a new bassist, know my name, and consider giving me a call only to have someone else in his group say he saw me the other week in a band and we were complete poop and that I wasn't even worth a call. At some point, you really do have to have standards - especially if music is a sizable source of income for you!

[AngelCrusher]

I have been in this situation and just straight up told the guy i was not that into that style of music but i could bail him out maybe once or twice a year.

I still party with the guy now and then and we are cool.