Should we play in a bar?

[pnut166]

Originally Posted by Manuel101

We have played 9 shows since last January.

Hmmm. People drinking seeing us...or nobody seeing us. Which is the path to success ?

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by deepBassie

A little snippet from something I read a while back...

In 1976, before playing their first show in Britain, the Ramones’ guitarist Johnny Ramone was talking with Paul Simonon, the Clash’s bassist. Johnny asked Simonon if he was in a band, and Simonon said he is, but they just rehearse, they’re not good enough. Here’s Johnny’s reply:

“Johnny asked him, ‘What do you do? Are you in a band?’ Paul said, ‘Well, we just rehearse. We call ourselves the Clash but we’re not good enough.’ Johnny said, ‘Wait till you see us—we stink, we’re lousy, we can’t play. Just get out there and do it.’”

That’s Johnny Ramone, the guitarist for one of the greatest bands of all time. And he thought they were trash.

Great advice there. You need to just do it. If you avoid gigs because you think you're not good enough for them or somehow the venue is above you, and you're just starting out, you'll never get anywhere.

[MarkMgibson]

I still reckon this guy is just scared; pure and simple. Whatever the reason, you have to ask yourself if you want to play music for a living. Regular pub gigs are my primary source of income. I do get other interesting jobs (I just played guitar in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar for 12 weeks), and the occasional bit of session work, but that stuff is gravy. Don't knock drunken Rock & Roll fans looking to have a good time at their local - that's money in the bank.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by deepBassie

A little snippet from something I read a while back...

In 1976, before playing their first show in Britain, the Ramones’ guitarist Johnny Ramone was talking with Paul Simonon, the Clash’s bassist. Johnny asked Simonon if he was in a band, and Simonon said he is, but they just rehearse, they’re not good enough. Here’s Johnny’s reply:

“Johnny asked him, ‘What do you do? Are you in a band?’ Paul said, ‘Well, we just rehearse. We call ourselves the Clash but we’re not good enough.’ Johnny said, ‘Wait till you see us—we stink, we’re lousy, we can’t play. Just get out there and do it.’”

That’s Johnny Ramone, the guitarist for one of the greatest bands of all time. And he thought they were trash.

well at least Johnny Ramone was honest. Musically they did suck.

[bwardmusic]

I play corporate gigs and clubs, and neither client seems to care whether you are in multiple markets. What they care about it in the corporate world is that you pull off the gig successfully and professionally. The bar owner will see you as a marketing organization that attracts business to their establishment.

So, focusing only on developing corporate business can be a good use of time given the focus it provides. If you don't have an agent, your time is spent networking and getting into the corporate events.

If you are a bar band, then you have to have a lot of facebook fans and social media stuff happening to attract people. So, the benefit of staying only corporate or only bar is so you can focus your limited time on what matters most to you.

One thing though, having a vibrant rehearsal schedule is important. They want to see you with lot of repeat bookings. I find corporate gigs aren't as easy to get these days in our town, so we fill up our schedule with bar gigs as needed. Plus, if the band isn't playing regularly, people get motivation problems and quit, or they join 4 other bands and then are never available. So, playing bars can be good for the musical quality and motivation of the band while you nurture those corporate contacts.

[obimark]

Depends on the bar, if your band is all "original" most bars won't want you anyhow for a full night gig as they mostly want covers that people have heard and may dance to. And chances are good noone is going to stick around for you playing 3 hours of originals regardless of how good they may/may not be.

So for you bars may not even be an issue, now if you are talking the more "typical" originals nights at bars where there are going to be 4-5 original bands in one night , and each play 4-5 songs (which is how it is in Atlanta) than it could be an issue.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bwardmusic

I play corporate gigs and clubs, and neither client seems to care whether you are in multiple markets. What they care about it in the corporate world is that you pull off the gig successfully and professionally.

That must be a regional thing, there are no ( as in none) original bands that are booking corporate gigs. Corporate gigs are booked by 1-2 agencies that handle the cities best cover and show bands.

If an originals band gets a corporate gig it's because somrone in the bands father / mother is the CEO of that corporation.


Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I still reckon this guy is just scared; pure and simple. Whatever the reason, you have to ask yourself if you want to play music for a living. Regular pub gigs are my primary source of income. I do get other interesting jobs (I just played guitar in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar for 12 weeks), and the occasional bit of session work, but that stuff is gravy. Don't knock drunken Rock & Roll fans looking to have a good time at their local - that's money in the bank.

Yes, it is.

I know a few guys that tour with big stars and when the tours are over and between tours they are back in bands doing bar/club gigs.

Me, I have never tired of doing bars and clubs like many. I'm not saying that won't happen someday, it hasn't happened yet.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by modulusman

well at least Johnny Ramone was honest. Musically they did suck.

Like most bands that make it big, they worked hard on their sound, show and image. The Ramones were a very well rehearsed band. They only made it look and sound easy. In my opinion.

Blue

[BWB]

Originally Posted by Manuel101

The issue is that he is an incredible drummer, we rehearse in his house and he started the band. But he is one of those people who thinks they have all the answers. He can be difficult to deal with because he is very assertive with his point of view.

Sounds like this band will be short-lived.

But the best of luck to ya! I'll be out at a "bar" playing for a live audience ... and some cash.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by BWB

Sounds like this band will be short-lived.

But the best of luck to ya! I'll be out at a "bar" playing for a live audience ... and some cash.

I like where your heads at.

Blue

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Like most bands that make it big, they worked hard on their sound, show and image. The Ramones were a very well rehearsed band. They only made it look and sound easy. In my opinion.

Blue

Yeah, The Bassline to "I wanna be sedated" is almost as hard as "Roundabout" by Yes.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Yeah, The Bassline to "I wanna be sedated" is almost as hard as "Roundabout" by Yes.

Johnny Ramone didn't play bass. The basslines in the Ramones were incredibly easy, but they had to be that way to fit the music.

The Ramones took VERY limited musical ability, and made something out of it. Johnny Ramone's buzz-saw, downstroke guitar playing was extremely rhythmic, and redefined punk guitar for everybody who came after.

He had no knowledge of theory, melody, or any kind of ability to move around the neck well, and yet he constantly gets on "best guitarist" lists, just for the inventiveness with which his right hand technique fit with the music they played.

The Ramones came out of the gate with less musical ability than I can cite for just about ANYBODY, but their years of playing onstage made them one of the most SOLID bands I've ever heard. There was no sloppiness in their delivery; none at all.

There is plenty a lot of self-indulgent wankers could learn from the Ramones' economy of motion. They were pure, natural geniuses, and when they made the move from borderline drummer (Tommy,) to professional drummer, (Marc Bell, who duplicated Tommy's STYLE but had pro TECHNIQUE,) their sound was fantastic.

I am equally a fan of The Ramones and Yes; the Pistols and the Allman Brothers. Music needs players from all sides of the equation to stay fresh and vital. It's easy to say the Ramones "sucked musically," but I can't remember ever hearing them play a single bad note.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Yeah, The Bassline to "I wanna be sedated" is almost as hard as "Roundabout" by Yes.

Your missing the point.

Blue

[obimark]

Good point, this is exactly the issue. In my current band, they can't believe I don't overplay constantly because they have been exposed to too many wankfest bassist.

Just because Dream theater, Rush and Victor Wooten can get away with being a wankfest, doesn't mean it is right for YOUR band's sound.

It's BIGGER than just YOU. play what is right for the song. It usually isn't 1/32 note paradiddles with a 2 octave scalar run in C# minor while you right hand slap alternate sixteenth notes. I hate to break it to you, usually it is eight or quarter root notes, with some well placed fills to break up the song, played in RHYTHM tight with the drum, or maybe slightly behind the beat for Stones type rock.
I'd say for what he does the Ramone's bass player is as GOOD as anyone, and better than most.
IMHO, listening to Yes and Dream Theater is like work, there is SO much going on, it is hard to just groove to any of it. Constantly changing time signatures, never sticking to a groove quite long enough.
Look at Siberian Katru, that main groove is cool, but every time it gets going, they switch. Frustrating, same with some Metallica. When you have a super strong/riff/groove going hang onto it for awhile.
Technically it is impressive as hell. But many times i'd prefer Ac/DC or Ramones.

[bassgeezer56]

I don't think I would want to play in a band that didn't want to play in bars!! I'm 56 as is the GP, drummer is 45, and after 30+ years of gigging together we've always love rockin' bars, reunions, receptions, all the little gigs with big paybacks and not only $$. Haulin' ass, doing back to back shows at two different venues in the same weekend is hard work but when I plug in the Wick and flip the switch to a KW of hard ass bass, guitarist and I nail the opening assault of "War Pigs" the bar erupts, job done!!!! I'm Lovin' It

[lbbc]

I'm the leader of my classic rock band...and would love to NEVER play bars again. But that's not realistic because your fans or potential fans will never hear how great you are. I dislike dealing with bar owners (many have no idea about music IMHO) but it's a necessary evil, if you want to play!

[LiamPodmore]

By the sound of things bar gigs aren't multi-band gigs because the bar would prefer to just book 1 band because it's easier for them. When we're booking gigs over here (Pub gigs normally), we always tell the venue that we'll have at least 1 support act with us, possibly 2 (Just one of two acoustic singer/songwriters and if we have 2 supports, another local band) and they're more than happy with this, because it draws in more people, and it's no extra effort on their behalf.

On a more related note, your drummer's digging you into a hole which you'll never get out of. Get him to see how the rest of you see, or fire him.

Liam

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Manuel101

The issue is that he is an incredible drummer.

There are plenty of good drummers out there.

Originally Posted by Manuel101

We rehearse in his house

Find a new place.

Originally Posted by Manuel101

He started the band.

Not relevant.

Originally Posted by Manuel101

But he is one of those people who thinks they have all the answers. He can be difficult to deal with because he is very assertive with his point of view.

You will never fix this.

Get a new drummer and move on. Anyone who thinks that playing in front of as many people as possible isn't going to increase your following is a dope.

[mjac28]

No the next Bob Dylan will be content playing in his mother's basement making his ground breaking music and playing for twenty of his friends and family and having his mother tell everyone how "talented" her son is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz