singer with baaaaaad sense of time

[Technicality]

I didn't think this was that uncommon, and I'm surprised you haven't run into it before.

I was in a band auditioning for a singer. We used to play the chain quite a bit as the guitarist knew it really well, and I could play and sing the vocal so we could get by.

Most of the singers we auditioned "knew" the song and wanted to sing it. Over half of them would come in on the first beat after the intro, and wrong in the same way for every other verse. I found it really infuriating.

The only reason I can think of is that they don't know how to practice, or they don't like practicing and for some reason don't think they need to.

[invader3k]

[quote=Technicality;13551715they don't like practicing and for some reason don't think they need to.[/QUOTE]

Common with a lot of people in bands, and not just lead singers unfortunately.

[Kmonk]

I would give him another shot. He may have been nervous or not familiar with the songs. If he isn't better the next time, keep looking.

[4dog]

Was his name Meatloaf by chance?? Seriously check out meatloaf live jis timing would drive me nuts.

[tmdazed]

Originally Posted by ronaldpdbrandt

It could be one of two things:


2. He has bad timing and can't hear it. There is usually no remedy for this. I know a guy who can know a song backwards and forwards, and can sing along with the recording with no problem, but as soon as he tries to do it with a band, he loses the melody and timing completely.

This is why I am skeptical of trying out Karaoke singers for a band. I have met some spectacular karaoke singers but put them in front of a band and they lose their minds, everything is set in concrete , they cannot seem to adjust to nuances and cadence that sometimes bands bring into their songs. These are not mistakes , its usually something a band adds to songs to make then theirs and defines a sound

[Massimo636]

Some people have good voices, but just aren't musicians.

[HolmeBass]

How do you know there is lead singer on your porch?




Can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in!

[bass81800]

I play in a house band for a recurring jam session. Usually this singer with really bad timing shows up. He has a pleasant personality and OK intonation, but his bad timing ruins the tune, and it is very difficult to play with him. The audience certainly notices this, and there are always many side comments about this well meaning singer. I know he has a voice teacher, but he is just not getting it.

Unless he pulls things off perfectly on Sunday, I would be very leery of taking him on. He could get it right in the woodshed, maybe at an audition, but taking newly learned, and still shaky, skills to a performance situation is kind of asking for a train wreck. The audience is not necessarily going to be very kind to these kinds of problems on stage.

Besides, it always seems there is something that happens at any gig that requires some kind of adjustment and ability to go with the flow. Would he be capable of handling that kind of thing?

Just thought of something else: Does he come in at the beginning at the right time? Does he start on the right pitch? These are other problems I noted with wannabee singers at the jam session. He has to be able to do these things as well.

[hrodbert696]

Give him a second chance but tell him frankly that you're concerned about the timing and he's going to have to correct it to be in the band.

I've been in a band, not an audition situation, but where the singer just couldn't get the cadences right. In that case, it was a major red flag because it was a matter of learning a new song for the repertoire and he insisted he knew the song, but clearly didn't. We were trying to add "Walking on the Sun," where the vocal rhythm has to be spot-on to work, and he just tried to hash his way through it in band practice rather than practice at home and get it right. It was one of a few accumulating issues that caused me to leave that band.

[plankspanker13]

This is an issue common to live band karaoke, I might add. I sometimes have to jump on the mic, and take over the lead vocal, to get the phrasing/timing back on-track.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

How do you know there is lead singer on your porch?




Can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in!

LOL - good one

All I can say is get use to it. I get hired by a lot of singers and it's always just follow the singer. Plenty of times it's just like an Ashlee Simpson moment on SNL.

Audience never seems to mind if you just keep playing.

[craig.p]

Wow, I've worked with singers who routinely rush the beat (even some of the superstars do), but never one that gets lost like the one you described here.

I think you went way above and beyond by giving him a second chance. I mean in a nice way. But don't let it bite you in the ass. If he shows up for Round Two and a sea change hasn't occurred in his performance, I'd say, "Ciao, brother."

Little nuisances you pick up on at someone's audition, if you do hire the person, usually become stark reality and dead weight as the weeks go by. All I'm saying is don't put off the inevitable; don't subject your band to the role of Vocalist Boot Camp. It'll only irritate the other members, and they'll start leaving -- the most-competent first.

[INTP]

I had a friend that loved to sing along with the radio, and his pitch was pretty good. I was playing with a group that got together casually just to jam. We played songs that I knew that he knew very well when listening to the recordings, but when it was just instruments, he seemed totally lost about when to come in. I was rather surprised at the time, but since he had never had any musical training, I guess he just didn't have the foundation. He didn't seem interested in doing it again. Kind of a shame, because he seemed to really get into singing, and had a passion for life that was very contagious.

[seamonkey]

Getting a singer with a good stage presence and personality can make up for rhythm problems. Singers can learn rhythm.

BTW - many recording stars listen to a track of another singer singing the song and they sing along. It's even used live.
If you have other backing tracks you use live, you can add a vocal track only the singer can hear.

IEM's hide and help a lot more than just hearing oneself.

[ChrisB2]

IME, some of the timing issues with singers is caused by cues missing in the music. In reality cover bands simply cannot recreate a song 100% and sometimes the missing element is an important signal for the vocalist to come in.

This is where band rehearsal makes all the difference... everyone getting together on stuff like that.

Then again, some singers just can't make it happen.

In a case like that of the OP, I would work with the guy more to see if it's just a matter of unfamiliarity with the band or truly a lack of ability....

[Demonjrx]

How terrible is it? Obviously it's an issue, but if you can work through it, why not? In my honest opinion I'd rather have an off time singer and work with him to fix it, then I would a singer who is a total prick that has a great sense of rhythm. I mean, flaws like that are fixable, where as most personality flaws in my experience aren't.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by tmdazed

This is why I am skeptical of trying out Karaoke singers for a band. I have met some spectacular karaoke singers but put them in front of a band and they lose their minds, everything is set in concrete , they cannot seem to adjust to nuances and cadence that sometimes bands bring into their songs. These are not mistakes , its usually something a band adds to songs to make then theirs and defines a sound

That is what I think is happening we had a leader who could not keep time for nothing. I concluded that there must be some specific cue he picked up from the recording that the band itself did not provide when we did our version of the song

[Hankenstein]

Really? First experience w singer with bad time?

Youngster.

Won't be the last.

[groooooove]

a ear training professor once said

its a common stereotype that singers have poor rhythmic sense. because i am a singer, i am particularly hard on them when it comes to that. but every year the instrumentalists are determined to prove me wrong, by coming in here and really sucking at rhythm.

seriously though, its common. a lack of phrasing is an even bigger problem. he needs to learn to deal with the bigger picture, the music as a whole, and not just the one-mindedness of being concerned strictly with his part (witch tends to be the culprit when people aren't phrasing anything in a particular way, and having poor sense of time)

[wabbit]

Was he as bad as this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj7pDNDuoJ0