small band problems

mvw356 · #1 03-27-2009, 02:28 PM

so, i joined a new band and it's going very well, the studio is booked for july to record a new album and new channels of promotion have been introduced. so far so good.

but, why, lord oh why, do guitards feel it's necessary to bring two marshall 4x12 to the rehearsal studio? why are guitards not able to play at lower volumes without complaining about their 'sound'? if he played a stereo set-up i'd understand, but he doesn't, it's about being blown away.
another example would be the recording procedure. i was told that the previous bassist had to plug straight into the desk, while the guitard gets another room where he can put his two stacks and all of his midi gear, because he can't play without 'his sound'. it's fine by me to record straight into the desk, but i don't see the logic behind it. generally, these guys play at insane volumes and it's getting on my nerves, i did point it out sometimes but i'm the new guy so i don't want to be difficult (the band has been together for 10 years already).

the other 'problem' is the keyboardist. his left hand is very heavy and gets in my way imo, and then he tells me he can't hear my lines. well, duh, he's blasting it out while i try to keep a constant playing level.

anyone here with similar problems who knows a solution?

Rob Lewis · #2 03-27-2009, 02:30 PM

Here beginneth another can of worms...

low-endz · #3 03-27-2009, 02:51 PM

I have been there .
The best you can do IME is reason with the whole band when you are away from the instruments, let them know you've tried your best to withstand the niose onslaught but cant continue until there is some adjustments made.

Its probably how they lost the last bassist(s)

If they still dont listen then leave, it not the band for you.

I'm sure theres other bands that wil love to have your sound balanced in with the group.

Rob Lewis · #4 03-27-2009, 03:06 PM

Am I right in assuming from the 4x12s that you are a heavy rock/metal band? If so I fear you are going to come across the "if it's too loud you're too old" argument. Run, as fast as you can...

low-endz · #5 03-27-2009, 03:14 PM

Even if you're in a Prog Death Metal Band, your bandmates should @ least try & understand your point but then again if they are rock/metal guitarist, so..good luck!

Oh!, you can always borrow a powerfull 1.5k watt head & borrow 4 8ohm 4x10 cabinets play @ level 10 with earplugs on,but then agian they will probably still tell you that they cant hear the bass.

Yeah leave the band if they cant adjust a bit for you.

tZer · #6 03-27-2009, 03:25 PM

If you are all playing together and listening to each other, these problems wouldn't exist. Everyone needs to be not only playing their parts, they need to be paying attention to the song as a whole - which means keys player needs to be aware of bass player needs to be aware of guitar player, etc...

It sounds like a group of individuals all trying to be heard over each other.

scottbass · #7 03-27-2009, 03:28 PM

Standard non-drummer problems #1 and #2: guitarist who can't get "his tone" at less than 120 dB and keyboardist who steps all over the bass line with his left hand.

You have 3 solutions: make them change, accept them the way they are (and wear ear plugs), or leave.

Intelligence, experience and maturity eventually overcome these issues, but who knows when that will happen? I play in a band with a 50-year-old unreformed Marshallist. My solution for over 6 years has been ear plugs. But now I'm leaving. (But not primarily because of the Marshallist.)

mvw356 · #8 03-27-2009, 03:30 PM

thanks for the advice.
i don't want to leave the band because i like what they play, they are nice guys and i have invested some time and effort already. some of the new songs were co written by me. it's a prog rock band, not really heavy, some heavy passages, but all within it's limits. i guess i could turn my amp up more, but that would be counterproductive, i want them to turn it down. i played in other bands before and the guitard issue about 'hey i need my sound man' which is equal to 'hey i turn it up to 11, don't you?' was exactly the same. seems like it's part of life if you are in a band.

Adam Bomb · #9 03-27-2009, 03:31 PM

I, too, have been there.

*Russian accent* You must crush them.

If you want to stay in this band, and you want them to be reasonable, first you must crush them. And to crush them, you must buy 2 things.

1. Buy an 810. Your profile says you have a 500-watt Carvin head. That'll do. You set that rig in the corner and you push it just as hard as you need to.

2. Buy the best damn earplugs money can buy. Everybody else will be suffering, and you will be fine. It's like being Superman.

That's it. Just do that. Eventually, *someone else* will broach the subject of turning down. That's where you want to be.

If just asking them not to be a-holes would work, you wouldn't have to ask in the first place.

You must crush them!!!

I'm not joking.

--Bomb

mvw356 · #10 03-27-2009, 03:42 PM

hehe, this is funny. i don't have a Carvin, i have a Trace Elliot V6 and EBS 4x10. right now i'm turned up about half, so i have loads more headroom

robd · #11 03-27-2009, 03:46 PM

A power brake could calm the guitard but you may need to sever the keyboard players left hand

#12 03-27-2009, 03:53 PM

Believe it or not, I agree with Adam. Beg, borrow, or steal some huge gear. Go into the next practice with the most rediculous set up ever! (I just had a vision of the rection of my band mates after hearing my Ampeg stack and my SWR stack going at the same time....that makes me smile) Anyway... Back to you. And if anyone raises hell at you for being too loud just say "That's MY SOUND man! I can't play without MY SOUND!" Plus you won't even have to have the keyboard talk because noone (including you) will hear his left hand anyway. Eventually somebody will come to their senses and say, maybe we should ALL kick it down a notch. By the way...Why don't any guitar players use a POWER BRAKE??? These things allow you to crack your tubes up to 11 and still have a reasonable volume because they reduce the power BETWEEN the head and the cab. Just curious. Best of luck to you.

nortonrider · #13 03-27-2009, 03:57 PM

How long have you been with this band?
you said long enoug to invest time and effort and co write some songs.
Why is this just now becoming a problem for you?

tZer · #14 03-27-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nortonrider

How long have you been with this band?
you said long enoug to invest time and effort and co write some songs.
Why is this just now becoming a problem for you?

Yep - didn't you notice this before? Discovering it with studio time looming is one great way to waste a ton of money.

mvw356 · #15 03-27-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Yep - didn't you notice this before? Discovering it with studio time looming is one great way to waste a ton of money.

i discovered this when i auditioned two months ago, and things haven't changed since. the overall volume is an issue beacuse it hurts my ears. the keyboardist's left hand is something i can get used to and i hope that the engineer/producer will turn him down on the album.

tlwaps · #16 03-27-2009, 04:13 PM

The last band I was in did that. Both guitarists just cranked their stacks up and they had to have everything miced. I just bought some ear plugs and turned up with them. I tried to reason with them but it didn't work. They also used to complain that I wouldn't rock out during rehearsal and kept telling me that if I can't do it at practice I wont be able to on stage even though I had the most live experience out of anybody else in the band. My advice would be, if you enjoy playing in the band just get some ear plugs and crank up with them.

tZer · #17 03-27-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw356

i discovered this when i auditioned two months ago, and things haven't changed since. the overall volume is an issue beacuse it hurts my ears. the keyboardist's left hand is something i can get used to and i hope that the engineer/producer will turn him down on the album.

Well, take it from a guy who has a pretty constant ringing in his ears - Wear ear plugs! Don't count on the rest of the band to come down in level - that may never happen. And even if it does, they'll slowly turn back up.

But protect your ears. Once they're gone, that's it. The ringing I have can get so bad that it keeps me awake at night.

basschick22 · #18 03-27-2009, 04:17 PM

If it's hurting your ears, that's a health issue. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up in conversation with the rest of the band. You only get one pair of ears for this lifetime and as a musician, your hearing is something you should value.

In my opinion, I think you should bring it to their attention. If they have a problem with it, maybe it's time to find a different group of people to work with.

danstefl · #19 03-27-2009, 04:27 PM

My guitarist has played for 30 yeasr and wears earplugs. she turns up so she can hear herself but has earplugs in. HELLO! that causes her to be twice as loud as everyone else.

One Guitarist plays through a 4x12 half stack, the other a Hartke half stack. I know the sounds and tones will be different but it sounds as if one has the EQ setting the EXACT opposite of the other. Shouldn't they be set, well, the same??

MNAirHead · #20 03-27-2009, 04:39 PM

Simple..

We commonly have a 20 watt amp practice amp requirement Or headphone amps

Go acoustic... save your ears.

If you can't play it quiet.. you can't play it loud