"Sorry can't make it to practice tonight but..."

[eedre]

"... I've got to work late."

"... I've got soccer practice."

"... I just talked to Steve, and they're giving away free cars downtown."

I've been playing in this church band for about a year. We all get paid bi-weekly to play for their contemporary service - but the same two people have almost stopped coming to practice. I just got an e-mail saying practice was canceled again because they can't make it. When we first started, everyone was always there on time to practice, but now, for some reason, no one can ever make it. Where did all the busyness materialize from? In all cases, dedication always seems to deteriorate.

I suppose I appreciate the fact that they actually let us know beforehand that they won't be there, but it's still frustrating. The keyboard player, who happens to have 4 kids, is able to make it - how can a 17-year-old drummer be strapped for time? If he wasn't so good (and he knows this), I would advise the music director to look for another drummer who appreciates getting paid for having fun.

I just can't understand it. I actually get angry when we can't practice just because I enjoy playing so much! I don't even consider it work!

[T. B. Player]

The keyboard player with four kids knows the meaning of the word "obligation." The 17 year old is clueless. The best lesson someone could teach him at this point in time is to bounce him from the group. I can understand if once in a while the keyboardist had to do something for one of his children and had to miss practice.

As a father of 3 kids (2 in college), my third just started high school in the nationally renown high school band. We got through 4 years of our son in it, and now it's her turn. I was asked to help direct the efforts of our fundraising to move towards a development mentality. I agreed, since it's what I do for my full-time job. However, I was also asked to teach at the local university on Monday nights (meeting nights) this Fall. If I don't accept, then there's no guarantee I'll be asked in the future. The band parent board is upset that I'll not be at the meetings in August, September, October and November, all throughout marching season. I asked them for a stipend of $2000 to offset the income I'd lose and they laughed. I walked.

The fact that you get paid for what you do strengthens obligation, along with your life circumstances at that point in history. It's part of the teenage psyche today that they can just not show up for work and expect to keep their job, or, they bring their mom or dad to their job interview with them so that they don't blow their chance at their first full-time position. That's just ridiculous. They've got to grow up sometime, and if the parents aren't going to teach them the meaning of the word "obligation," and they can't rent the Walt Disney movie, "Bambi," where Thumper learns that lesson, then where else better to learn a lesson than the church?

Z

[saxnbass]

You guys get paid for playing for your church's contemporary band?

[eedre]

Originally Posted by T. B. Player

The keyboard player with four kids knows the meaning of the word "obligation." The 17 year old is clueless. The best lesson someone could teach him at this point in time is to bounce him from the group. I can understand if once in a while the keyboardist had to do something for one of his children and had to miss practice.

As a father of 3 kids (2 in college), my third just started high school in the nationally renown high school band. We got through 4 years of our son in it, and now it's her turn. I was asked to help direct the efforts of our fundraising to move towards a development mentality. I agreed, since it's what I do for my full-time job. However, I was also asked to teach at the local university on Monday nights (meeting nights) this Fall. If I don't accept, then there's no guarantee I'll be asked in the future. The band parent board is upset that I'll not be at the meetings in August, September, October and November, all throughout marching season. I asked them for a stipend of $2000 to offset the income I'd lose and they laughed. I walked.

The fact that you get paid for what you do strengthens obligation, along with your life circumstances at that point in history. It's part of the teenage psyche today that they can just not show up for work and expect to keep their job, or, they bring their mom or dad to their job interview with them so that they don't blow their chance at their first full-time position. That's just ridiculous. They've got to grow up sometime, and if the parents aren't going to teach them the meaning of the word "obligation," and they can't rent the Walt Disney movie, "Bambi," where Thumper learns that lesson, then where else better to learn a lesson than the church?

Z

I don't think he sees it as a job. He feels like it's his decision whether or not to grace us with his presence. Of course, this is all contingent on whether or not he has something else going on.

Just confusing as to how we all started out showing up on time, ready to practice - and now, it's a rare occasion that practice is even held! I would understand if this was volunteer work.

[eedre]

Originally Posted by saxnbass

You guys get paid for playing for your church's contemporary band?

Not our church.

[saxnbass]

Originally Posted by eedre

I've been playing in this church band for about a year. We all get paid bi-weekly to play for their contemporary service

Originally Posted by eedre

Not our church.

[eedre]

Originally Posted by saxnbass

We play there, but it is not our home church - it's Presbyterian and we belong to a Lutheran church?

[saxnbass]

But you get paid to play in the church band?

[eedre]

Originally Posted by saxnbass

But you get paid to play in the church band?

Yes, we get paid as musicians to play for a church. I was pointing out the fact that it was not "our" church.

[invader3k]

I think it's time to have a band meeting, outside of practice. Remind everyone that they're getting paid to perform, and the expectation is that they will practice regularly. Set an expectation like "We're going to practice a minimum of three times a month. If a member misses more than one scheduled practice in a month, it will be assumed they can no longer particpate, and a replacement will be found", or something like that. Sometimes people just need a little reminder nudge. With the 17 year old, it may be time to find a replacement, regardless of talent level. It could be a valuable life lesson for him.

[derrico1]

Just curious: does the group *need* to practice regularly at this stage? Any chance your drummer is letting you know (however passive aggressively) that he thinks the regular rehearsals aren't as productive or necessary as they once were?

[eedre]

Originally Posted by derrico1

Just curious: does the group *need* to practice regularly at this stage? Any chance your drummer is letting you know (however passive aggressively) that he thinks the regular rehearsals aren't as productive or necessary as they once were?

Probably not. Usually one new song every other week that we need to work on. But we have to be there so that the singers get a good idea of how we're going to play it.

Regardless if we need to be there or not - we should be there if we're getting paid.

I still have fun even if we are playing the same stuff - I happen to enjoy hanging out with them and it makes me sad when practice is canceled

[Eublet]

I was paid to play in a Wednesday night band for a youth group in a baptist church while I was in college. Actually, it was me on bass, my room mate on keys, and drummer, all from the same small college, and none of us went to the church. We showed up 45 minutes before service, put together 3 or 4 songs with the Youth director who lead the singing, and we played our entire set in the first 15 minutes of the service. They paid us $35 a piece, and we left as soon as we were done playing. Very strange situation, but it was a snooty high-society church that had lots of money, and all the kids in the youth group thought they were too cool to be in a band.

As for people not showing up, typical for volunteer church bands. Excitement wears off very quickly when people join, and then they lack the maturity to see a commitment through. I've seen it a bazillion times. At the church where I attend and play now for years, I've seen each position roll over several times. People have no respect or understanding for the responsibility of SERVING in a church band. They try to use it for the musical jollies, and that just doesn't cut it.

[eedre]

Originally Posted by Eublet

As for people not showing up, typical for volunteer church bands. Excitement wears off very quickly when people join, and then they lack the maturity to see a commitment through. I've seen it a bazillion times. At the church where I attend and play now for years, I've seen each position roll over several times. People have no respect or understanding for the responsibility of SERVING in a church band. They try to use it for the musical jollies, and that just doesn't cut it.

I volunteered for 2 years at my church. But when the said drummer stopped showing up again, and other members had been replaced by other not-so-good members, I stopped going to save myself from the embarrassment.

[scootron]

T. B. Player (I use that same signature in emails to the band) was right when he talked about the meaning of obligation. In our band, though, the 18-year old guitarist is always there, on-time, ready to play. Our problem is with our singer, in his late 30's. We can work up new tunes, but you really can't polish them without having your singer present, and having him cancel at the last minute, not show up, or come bopping in an hour late really puts a damper on things.

I agree that the band meeting is the way to go, and if there are no results, that bouncing the drummer may be the way to go. We are looking at that option as well. It will be painful, but not as painful as continuing with an unreliable frontman.

[bradjonesbass]

every time I read one of these Church bass threads it makes me very grateful for the situation we have at the church I attend. Lots of pro and semi-pro players, all volunteer, play every other week, everybody is there on time and ready to go every week for rehearsal, challenging music, competent sound engineers, great leaders, no attitudes, etc...

This young man needs to suffer the consequences of his actions and be dismissed (at least temporarily) from the worship team.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by eedre

I volunteered for 2 years at my church. But when the said drummer stopped showing up again, and other members had been replaced by other not-so-good members, I stopped going to save myself from the embarrassment.

To each his own to work out their own convictions, but I've been in this spot for a long time now. Our drummer is quite good, but everyone else is either pathetic or just very young on their instruments. We had a very tight team about 4 years ago, but a church split that was unrelated to music took a bunch of them away, and we started picking up younger talent from the youth group. It makes it harder to really enjoy the music sometimes, but there again I think it's about service, not reward. The young guys are getting great experience from this, and I hope to have helped them. They've gotten much better of the last couple years, and are starting to actually play tastefully for teenage guitarists. If I could only get them to turn down just a little bit more so that they could better hear what others are trying to say on their instrument.

If I had quit, then it would have been much more chaotic, as the only other bass player couldn't have handled the responsibilities. Then the drummer probably would have quit and it would have gotten worse. Not to toot my own horn, but I really feel like my dedication to sticking it out has helped hold things together, with the help of the drummer. Some rewards aren't measured in dollars, and they don't get paid immediately upon delivery.

[eedre]

Originally Posted by bradjonesbass

every time I read one of these Church bass threads it makes me very grateful for the situation we have at the church I attend. Lots of pro and semi-pro players, all volunteer, play every other week, everybody is there on time and ready to go every week for rehearsal, challenging music, competent sound engineers, great leaders, no attitudes, etc...

This young man needs to suffer the consequences of his actions and be dismissed (at least temporarily) from the worship team.

It's so tough to find anybody that's good on the drums. We've had replacements come in for him on several occasions - they typically ride the hi hat and snare with a predictable bass kick the whole song. If we had plenty of drummers to pick from, I'd would warn him, then boot him if it happened again.

[eedre]

Originally Posted by Eublet

To each his own to work out their own convictions, but I've been in this spot for a long time now. Our drummer is quite good, but everyone else is either pathetic or just very young on their instruments. We had a very tight team about 4 years ago, but a church split that was unrelated to music took a bunch of them away, and we started picking up younger talent from the youth group. It makes it harder to really enjoy the music sometimes, but there again I think it's about service, not reward. The young guys are getting great experience from this, and I hope to have helped them. They've gotten much better of the last couple years, and are starting to actually play tastefully for teenage guitarists. If I could only get them to turn down just a little bit more so that they could better hear what others are trying to say on their instrument.

If I had quit, then it would have been much more chaotic, as the only other bass player couldn't have handled the responsibilities. Then the drummer probably would have quit and it would have gotten worse. Not to toot my own horn, but I really feel like my dedication to sticking it out has helped hold things together, with the help of the drummer. Some rewards aren't measured in dollars, and they don't get paid immediately upon delivery.

You may have inspired me to make a return

[jcpowell27]

I know it is not fun when practice is canceled but the kid is giving you resonable time and reasons for not being there. Of course he could be saying "well why don't we have practice this time instead" but thats a whole other issue.

You also have to remember that when your 17 you don't get the best jobs. I can't say I was ever even called back for a summer job that had hours that started before 3pm when I was that age. I worked at a pizza place that reguarly had me there from 4-11 at least 4 nights a week, even later on the weekends. I understand that you're getting paid for the church gig too, but is it really more than he would be making at another job?

I know that it seems like the kid is being irresponcable by "blowing off" practice, but really he/ she is giving you notice, and still showing up to the gigs. I would say thats at least half responable.

The only way I can suggest to resolve this is to have a meeting with the rest of the band. Get the kids side to the story and explain your feelings on the subject. I hope everything works out for you guys,


-Joe P.