Stage Volume - Good story

[DWBass]

I agree it must be a rock/metal thing. I play r&b, soul and funk music. But we still have the issues with guitarists bringing more than what is needed and hard hitting drummers. These are not experienced cats though.

[klaus486]

Best sound I've ever had was when my amp blew up on stage and I had to use a DI into the FOH and monitors. Great sound on stage. I could hear everything!

[NYCbassist]

I haven't posted in a while but had to chime in on this.
To me it's an enjoyment thing. I love to hear the growl of my Bass on stage. I can't stand just DI into FOH.
There is a way to have the best of both worlds but not if you are a bassist that likes to jump around on stage.
Simply aim your rig toward the Drummer so he can hear you. Then hang back by your drummer and lock in like you're supposed to.
If you're singing alot then I suggest everyone get in ear Monitors and a competent sound man.
To me being Raw and loud on stage is Old School. It's the way Rock & Roll is supposed to be but there's lot's of other types of music. Your particular band has to do what is best for the Dynamic of the Show you are putting on.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by NYCbassist

Then hang back by your drummer and lock in like you're supposed to.

Hi NYCbassist,

I get where your coming from and it's a good idea.

However, it depends on the type of band and the OPs style.

Me, I am not a hang back by the drummer type of player. I prefer to perform right up front.

I really value the "rock n roll spot light" and prefer to stay in it.

blue

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Hi NYCbassist,

I get where your coming from and it's a good idea.

However, it depends on the type of band and the OPs style.

Me, I am not a hang back by the drummer type of player. I prefer to perform right up front.

I really value the "rock n roll spot light" and prefer to stay in it.

blue

Hi Blue,
That's the one thing I really want to work on. I have trouble staying in the pocket once I start Moving too much. I do usually have a light aimed right at me. I guess I just feel really Comfortable back by the Drum Kit. I am in no way telling anyone where to stand but holding down the Bottom is first priority. I Thank you for your comment. You have inspired me to get more into the Spot Light. Do you agree that the in ear monitors would help with the Stage volume issue?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by NYCbassist

Hi Blue,
That's the one thing I really want to work on. I have trouble staying in the pocket once I start Moving too much. I do usually have a light aimed right at me. I guess I just feel really Comfortable back by the Drum Kit. I am in no way telling anyone where to stand but holding down the Bottom is first priority. I Thank you for your comment. You have inspired me to get more into the Spot Light. Do you agree that the in ear monitors would help with the Stage volume issue?

I think overall in ear stage monitors are the answer to many sound issues. However it's an expensive proposition.

I've never used them, but I think the whole band would have to use them, it requires a board that has enough " sends". Most bands that use them are playing upper end gigs and incorporate a click track to play along to.

Blue

[pedro]

I'm not sure I could stand playing in a truly loud band. I have been blessed with playing with musical drummers who are very much in control of their volume.

FWIW, we play small to medium clubs playing mostly rock/pop/r&b/Motown from the 60-90's. I use a TCE 450 classic thru the TCE210 without PA support. Our keys player goes direct into the PA and the guitarist brings a smallish Fender amp but also gets mic'd into the PA for purposes of spreading his his sound out thru the venue and NOT for volume. Kick drum gets some PA help. Seems to work fine and we are asked back.

At this stage of my life, and with my so-called skills, a large rig would embarrass me.

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by klaus486

Best sound I've ever had was when my amp blew up on stage and I had to use a DI into the FOH and monitors. Great sound on stage. I could hear everything!

I got a similar "conversion" for large stages with good FOH and monitors. I was tired of my rig "fighting" the FOH for lows and clarity so my son's 12"(aluminum, Hartke clone) Behringer was brought and I used an MXR stompbox EQ to cut the lows out of it....only mids and highs. The FOH subs and drummer's monitor give me lows. As you, I could hear everything clearly. Gave my son his amp back and got one myself for such events.

OP: I agree with the less is more if it fits your music, audience, and venue size. Our only issue now is a keyboard/guitarist who was 10 years pro in country music and has hearing loss....so he turns up and gets told sometimes to turn down.

[guy n. cognito]

My band has gotten many, many gigs due to our ability to play at appropriate volume. Conversely, we lost a few gigs because our former guitard insisted on using a Marshall half stack and wouldn't control his volume.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by craig.p

I can't see that setup coming even close to what's required for those audience sizes. I even see it borderline for quiet rehearsals in anything larger than a small room.

But if it's working for you, and you're getting invited back to those rooms, then something else must be at work: quiet audiences, extremely "live" acoustics, older crowds who no longer rock out, whatever.

Or they ain't all half deaf like me.

Got a big question mark over my head on this one..........

I don't know what kind of music you play, but I've played hundreds of gigs in small rooms with nothing more than a powered PA head, a couple of mains, and a couple of monitors. Good old fashioned rock and roll gigs, at that.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by pedro

At this stage of my life, and with my so-called skills, a large rig would embarrass me.

What would you consider a large rig?

Blue

[pedro]

Originally Posted by bluewine

What would you consider a large rig?

Blue

Anything bigger than a 4x10.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I don't know what kind of music you play, but I've played hundreds of gigs in small rooms with nothing more than a powered PA head, a couple of mains, and a couple of monitors. Good old fashioned rock and roll gigs, at that.

Last Friday we played a small club and used a scaled back PA.

We used our powered rehearsal PA head and used our new stage monitors for mains and our small old stage monitors. I didn't like it at all. However we had no choice, there is no way we would be able to find space in this club for even 1 sub.

After we resolved some bleeding from the kick drum it actually worked out ok and it was a fun gig.

Blue

blue

[pedro]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Last Friday we played a small club and used a scaled back PA.

We used our powered rehearsal PA head and used our new stage monitors for mains and our small old stage monitors. I didn't like it at all. However we had no choice, there is no way we would be able to find space in this club for even 1 sub.

After we resolved some bleeding from the kick drum it actually worked out ok and it was a fun gig.

Blue

blue

Its easy to forget that many of us that started back in the mid or early 60's ran vocals only into Shure Vocal Master or Kustom PA. There was no FOH or subs or anything else. Not that I want to go back to the bad old days but just pointing out that it can be done.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by pedro

Anything bigger than a 4x10.

ok, I wasn't sure. I lug a GK RBX 1 15 and an RBX 2 10 and it's a back breaker as it is.

No way would I ever use an SVT like I did 35 years ago.

Small guitar rigs are a lot better than whats offered to bass players at this point in time. I tried some of the small Mark Bass combos, I didn't see the value at all.

Blue

[pedro]

Originally Posted by bluewine

ok, I wasn't sure. I lug a GK RBX 1 15 and an RBX 2 10 and it's a back breaker as it is.

No way would I ever use an SVT like I did 35 years ago.

Small guitar rigs are a lot better than whats offered to bass players at this point in time. I tried some of the small Mark Bass combos, I didn't see the value at all.

Blue

Blue I don't mean anybody else shouldn't use them but I'm an old ham and egger and I'd feel self conscientious and wouldn't want anyone to think that I thought I was anything to write home about. All of that in addition to the weight issue. I've had some back issues and so far I've been quite happy with the TCE rig. I've 'just' added a second TCE210 just in case I need it.

[tbirdsp]

These discussions are interesting. I got back into playing this year and decided to get my own PA. I have some sound man experience but it was 19 years ago.
Money was(is) tight so I ended up getting Behringer stuff (OK, get your groans out now). Two B212D powered mains on stands with a single B1500D sub. For monitors I got a good deal on a QSC RMX850 amp so I have 2 passive Behringer VS1220F (12" + horn) floor wedges. Guitar player also has two 12" monitors so we can have 4 cabs with 2 different mixes if needed. Board is a Mackie ProFX16.
Now - I haven't used this system for a gig yet. Set it up in the garage and tested it with a CD player, some vocal mics (SM58) and tried the DI from my GK MB200 head with my bass (sounded damn good).
We are playing blues/classic rock material. 3 piece plus female lead vocal. Hopefully I can keep the drummer quiet (he used to play metal). For small club gigs I still plan on micing the kick - I just think it sounds empty without doing this. I'll probably mic the snare, even if I just use it to get a send to the reverb and have it nearly off in the FOH mains. Our guitarist is pretty reasonable, has some boutique heads and a 212 cab, but he just bought an Avatar 112 too - I intend on micing him. I'll probably just use my MB200 with either a Hartke 210XL vertically or a Benz Benz Focus 115. I'll run through the PA at least at SOME level. I just like to have everything going through the mains - not so much for volume as to kind of "unify" the mix - maybe I'm weird.

[bluewine]

And then there are guys that you might see in a club, that are playing so good and sound so great it doesn't matter what their playing or what they're playing through.

blue

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Very funny. We have a 'real' PA and use it quite often. Just some spots it's just overkill to bring all that equipment to play for 150-200 people. They can hear us just fine. Hell, the DJ plays louder than we do! It's just not necessary to be that loud. And by the way, we gig a minumum of once a week and often twice a week and occasionally 3 times a week at large bar/restaurant venues.

What is a 'real' PA anyway? Does it always have to be top of the line? 4000 watts? Multi mains and sub arrays? 2-3 monitor mixes? C'mon dude, that is so old school thinking! If you don't mind moving, setting up and breaking down and storing all that stuff......that's on you! We've done block parties with our 'little' PA and could be heard several blocks away. Real talk!

No old school thinking is using a powered mixer. Now days it is powered Pa cabs and digital mixers. I have PA gear that is about the same size as your stuff that will sound better than your kustom/behringer stuff any day.

[nashvillebill]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I don't know what kind of music you play, but I've played hundreds of gigs in small rooms with nothing more than a powered PA head, a couple of mains, and a couple of monitors. Good old fashioned rock and roll gigs, at that.

Guy speaketh truth, I can vouch for both his present band as well as his former band's success.

His previous band: lead guitar used a Marshall 18 watt tube combo. It needed to be mic'd on outdoor or very very large gigs but most of the time it was quite adequate. Guitar #2 didn't use a particularly powerful amp either. Regular club gig was at a place with roughly 100 people, only vocals through the mains and a couple of monitors. Even on "Song #2" or "Give It Away", plenty of oomph to rock the crowd--without the band or the crowd going deaf.