Talking to sound guys and monitors

BlueShox · #1 08-10-2008, 11:56 PM

Just got done with my first show tonight, and things went pretty well despite a few obstacles. We had a bunch of issues with the monitors, ie. in mine I had about 90% bass, and like no guitar. The rest was just low drums, no vocals. The guitar player complained of only having high drums and a little bit of bass. We did have a sound check, but didn't really get a grasp on how things were sounding until we started our first song and realized how offset things were. I actually thought it was just my monitor until I was talking with my bandmates after the show.

Is it rude to just go up to the mic. and start instructing the sound guy about what you need in your monitors, or should you try talking to them before and telling them you what need more of in the mix to help you play into the songs? I really loved my tone, but I couldn't do a lot with it when I had trouble finding my place during the songs; luckily we've been practicing for a long time and I was able to get by with just the low drums.

On an unrelated note, the soundguy told me that he miced my amp and was using the xlr output of my sansamp to put me in the mix, and I was VERY pleased with my tone.

Nick Kay · #2 08-11-2008, 12:42 AM

I usually handle monitor issues during the sound check, or right after. It's not rude to ask for changes during the set - the sound guy's not a mind reader. For all he knows, you might like 90% bass in your monitors.

However, you do risk breaking atmosphere. If you're playing very dark, serious material, and there isn't any of the usual humourous stage banter in between songs, you don't want to walk up to the mic and start spouting things off. Hand signals are tough to use unless you're used to working with this sound guy, but they might do the trick - be sure to make eye contact, though.

For example, a local band I saw once had zero stage banter between songs. Every song segued into the next through feedback, effect freakouts or samples. The lighting was darkened, there were videos being projected onto the wall behind the band, kinda like Tool. It was a very dramatic and powerful presentation. After the third song, the guitarist walked up to his mic and said "Can I get a little more vocal in my monitor?" and the atmosphere was shattered. After that, the whole set-up just seemed cheesy and contrived.

John Wentzien · #3 08-11-2008, 12:49 AM

Make sure your stage sound is good...
and put just the vocals in the moitors to match the backline.
Let the PA do the work....
The less "fancy" you get on montors; the better

badstonebass · #4 08-11-2008, 12:52 AM

IMO and most pros opinions....unless you are playing ampless or with in-ears monitors are for vocals only.

John Wentzien · #5 08-11-2008, 12:59 AM

+1 the sound-guy will love you!
and that will get you a looooong way..don't piss him off or you'll get turned OFF every time...I promise

bakeronbass · #6 08-11-2008, 01:07 AM

After the third song, the guitarist walked up to his mic and said "Can I get a little more vocal in my monitor?" and the atmosphere was shattered. After that, the whole set-up just seemed cheesy and contrived.[/quote]

LOL

Anyway I say tell the sound guy whenever as soon as you notice its an issue. Thats what they are there for. Also a good idea to know what your drummer likes in his mix since he doesnt have a mic. (usually). For my drummer its keys vocals and guitar very loud.

cheers

nicoli · #7 08-11-2008, 01:37 AM

I do sound as well as play.

Getting the stage sound right is something new bands often struggle with, it's all part of gaining experience. The best thing you can do is have a really thorough sound check, and make sure everyone is happy before you get off the stage. This is the time to talk to your soundman and let him know what you want to hear. It can get a little tedious at times, but everyone is better off if the band gets off stage happy and minimal adjustment is needed once they hit the stage for the show. I hate it when a band finishes and complains about their stage sound, but never asked me for anything. Why would I give them more vocals if they didn't ask for more?

If I'm mixing monitors and have the luxury of multiple monitor mixes, I'll ask everyone what they want and give them nothing other than that. Bring it up until they're happy, then try some songs and make adjustments. Once you get into the set, try hand signals if you need more of something. If that doesn't work, then you can flat out ask for it.

If the bass was too loud on stage, you probably should have turned your amp down. Generally if a bassist has an amp on stage, it's not in the monitors unless specifically requested. Your amp should be treated as your monitor.

Alaska Bass · #8 08-11-2008, 01:49 AM

A good sound engineer (not "guy" or "person") running FOH (Front of House) and monitors will always keep an eye on the stage looking for signals regarding any needed mix adjustments.

A full-time monitor engineer will not only be watching for signals, but also will be spot checking and tweaking mixes with his/her stage monitor (it allows a duplicate mix of what you hear to be played right next to them, or with his/her near-field monitors and/or iem's.

Touching or pointing to a signal source ie. instrument, vocal mic, other instrumentalist or vocalist should be an indicator to the engineer that an adjustment will need to be made, then just signal up or down as needed, giving a subtle affirmation when the desired level is achieved.

A great monitor mix will be dynamic, not static; most of the time though, you are lucky to just get a "sound person" and then all bets are off as to whether they will even look at you let alone adjust anything for you once the show starts.

John Wentzien · #9 08-11-2008, 01:55 AM

In 30+ years of touring ...I'm lucky to get a sound "GIMP" 10% of the time.

Nick Kay · #10 08-11-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wentzien

In 30+ years of touring ...I'm lucky to get a sound "GIMP" 10% of the time.

+1. I'm hesitant to call someone an engineer if they don't know how to wrap a cable over-under.

John Wentzien · #11 08-11-2008, 02:09 AM

If your stage volume is so loud that you need ear-plugs.
You are TOO LOUD.
Keep it down and you'll still be able to hear after years of playing(like me)
The PA should just make your sound "louder" out-front...simple

**Stumbo** · #12 08-11-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueShox

We had a bunch of issues with the monitors,

Maybe you could have asked the sound "engineer-person-guy/gal" to come up to the stage to let him know about all the problems? Obviously this may not have practical, but with everyone having problems with the monitors, it may have been easier to solve them all with one conversation.

I am also curious on how the SE tested the monitors during sound check? Did he even ask you what you wanted? If the problems were obvious during the first song what was actually done during sound check?

**Pacman** · #13 08-11-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badstonebass

IMO and most pros opinions....unless you are playing ampless or with in-ears monitors are for vocals only.

In over 20 years of being a professional musician, I've never seen this to be the case. Monitors are for whatever you need to hear better.

BlueShox · #14 08-11-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Maybe you could have asked the sound "engineer-person-guy/gal" to come up to the stage to let him know about all the problems? Obviously this may not have practical, but with everyone having problems with the monitors, it may have been easier to solve them all with one conversation.

I am also curious on how the SE tested the monitors during sound check? Did he even ask you what you wanted? If the problems were obvious during the first song what was actually done during sound check?

We were the second band playing, and he said the first band said that that the monitors were perfect, so he was going to keep them where they were. I noticed my guitar player motioning for more guitar (pointing to his amp, and moving his thumb upwards), but he said that the SE didn't change anything. He didn't ask us what we wanted, and our sound check was more of getting stage volumes checked than the monitors. I didn't even think about the monitors until we were starting our first song.

Is it sensible to just ask that the levels in your monitor just be set the same as the stage volumes? So that you get everything in the mix?

Addressing the thought of my bass being too loud and thats why I didn't get anything else in the mix; people on the floor gave us many compliments on our sound and about how well mixed we were. So it wasn't that I was too loud. I even turned myself down substanitally in the last part of our set, and noticed no difference in what was coming out of my monitor.

Eublet · #15 08-11-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

In over 20 years of being a professional musician, I've never seen this to be the case. Monitors are for whatever you need to hear better.

For sure. On a large stage where everyone is spread out, having others in your monitor is the only way to hear what's going on.

mrokern · #16 08-11-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badstonebass

IMO and most pros opinions....unless you are playing ampless or with in-ears monitors are for vocals only.

Please tell that to all the national acts for whom I mix monitors every summer. It will make my job a LOT easier!!!

-Mark

Rick Brienzo · #17 08-11-2008, 11:58 PM

If you have time before you play talk to the sound guy and let them know what you want (do not forget to offer them a drink). You can even write down a cheat sheet for them.

If you have no time to sound check just have them take everything out of the monitors except the vocals. Balance you instruments via your amps on stage. I usually tell them only vocals up front and a little bit of everything for the drummer.

I have been doing this for the last few years when I am in a strange place and its works out great. All of our monitor problems seemed to come from the previous bands crazy mix. Who wants to fight that all night long.

Jerry Ziarko · #18 08-12-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

In over 20 years of being a professional musician, I've never seen this to be the case. Monitors are for whatever you need to hear better.

Amen to that! Having whatever you need in your mix makes for a better performance. It doesn't have to mirror FOH but rather make up for deficiencies in what you are hearing. I hate not having kick drum in my wedge/IEM. It helps keep the drummers center of the beat more in focus.