Tensions rise in practice, gig coming up soon!

need4mospd · #1 09-17-2007, 11:58 AM

Mostly just a rant here...
The party band I'm in has been having some issues lately with a certain member. We've been in the dreaded practice stage before playing our first gig for a few months now. We've finally lined up the first gig at a wine/cheese tasting at the country club, coming up this Thursday. If we do good on this gig, we'll be playing this place every week as the house band for some NICE money.

The problem is, the past couple weeks have brought out a less attractive side of a certain member. First it was a few rude remarks that got half an apology. I got over it, I figured it was just personality conflict and I felt it was best just to move on. Last practice, our drummer tried as politly as possible to address some volume issues we've been having with him. His reaction was typical of a lead guitarist(he is NOT a guitarist), with a sigh and look of annoyance. Followed by an exaggerrated adjustment of the volume knob and blaming someone else for being too loud. This pissed off the drummer one last time, he blew up and the mood was a bit sour for the next hour. Our singer had to walk out til she cooled off, and we finally got back into practicing the rest of our stuff just fine.

To address any question on volume or practice space, we're practicing in a ~18' x ~10' room, with 3 Bose PAS towers and bass units. The tower he is plugged in to is pointing straight at him. I'm sitting directly to the side of it and it was still loud for me. No one has an amp in the room besides the guitarist who actually knows how to turn down, everyone relies on the PA system to be heard. The drummer has e-drums.

Now, I'm sensing this gig(or one in the future) will go poorly because of his volume issues, and the band may have to find another member. I answered the ad on craigslist that was titled, "It can't be that hard". If I only knew...

rakirksey · #2 09-17-2007, 12:06 PM

This sort of reminds me of a few similar situations in the current band that I'm in. We had a keyboard player that could never hear himself even though the rest of the band could. He also had a heavy left hand, but that's another issue. In the end we ended parting ways with him, but it was due to a number of other issues with the band leader and some of his communication issues.

I think the main thing I learned from this is that in general a band is like any other relationship. If there is something that bugs you in the beginning you have to confront the issue head on. If there isn't an amicable agreement, then that relationship really needs to end. In some respects a marginal player with a great attitude is 10x better than a great player with a ****** attitude.

badstonebass · #3 09-17-2007, 02:02 PM

Sounds like one or all of these are the problem.

EQ - Sometimes the way the PA is EQ'd makes it hard for a person to hear themselves....try working on that.

Hearing problems - Does the guy have hearing damage from years of playing?

PA setup - Try moving somethings around. If you can hear the guy and he can't it could be the TRUTH maybe he should be where YOU are. PAS are NOT the end all be all. They have problems and hearing from onstage is one of those that can happen. Every room is different.

Finally, I don't know anyone who CRANKS their amp for no reason. I have a certain way I like to hear onstage. I like to feel the bass more than "hear the bass"....others like the mids loud but no "quake". Help work out the problem patiently. How would you react if someone says "Turn down your *&%$^% rig" and you can't hear a thing.

need4mospd · #4 09-17-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badstonebass

Sounds like one or all of these are the problem.

EQ - Sometimes the way the PA is EQ'd makes it hard for a person to hear themselves....try working on that.

Hearing problems - Does the guy have hearing damage from years of playing?

PA setup - Try moving somethings around. If you can hear the guy and he can't it could be the TRUTH maybe he should be where YOU are. PAS are NOT the end all be all. They have problems and hearing from onstage is one of those that can happen. Every room is different.

Finally, I don't know anyone who CRANKS their amp for no reason. I have a certain way I like to hear onstage. I like to feel the bass more than "hear the bass"....others like the mids loud but no "quake". Help work out the problem patiently. How would you react if someone says "Turn down your *&%$^% rig" and you can't hear a thing.

EQ, he's going straight into the PA. I don't know if you're familiar with the BOSE, but the EQ sucks. In fact, I think the whole thing sucks, but I didn't buy it and I don't have to haul it!

Hearing problems, I have suspected this myself. I have no clue how we'd resolve that issue if that's the case. With the BOSE PA, if he turns up to hear himself, the audience hears him louder too. Maybe an additional montor is necessary...

PA setup, there are 3 towers in the room. We've run him through 2 of them in different locations. One pointing straight at him about 5-6 feet away, almost ideal. And the other one right next to him and to the side a bit. No difference in volume according to him. The dispersion angle on the BOSE towers are pretty wide so I can see how that would be.

Everytime we've told him about his volume being too loud, we've been MORE than polite, especially after the first time he got pissy. We've all told other members of the band to turn down before, so it's not like we're only picking on him. In fact, last time, we told the guitarist to turn down before him! I've been told to turn down and usually I had already adjusted my volume because I knew I was too loud...

We'll try to work through it for now, hopefully he comes around.

derrico1 · #5 09-17-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4mospd

Maybe an additional montor is necessary...

In-ears w/ a separate monitor mix for him would solve your stage/FOH sound problems, but unfortunately they won't do a thing about his people skills.

troy mcclure · #6 09-17-2007, 05:26 PM

If you think he is a pain in the ass now, just wait a few months after you are gigging. Someone gave me advice on a a similar thrwead..it never gets better only worse... cut your loses and find a different guy.

mjolnir · #7 09-17-2007, 06:00 PM

Yup, cut yer losses.

Hell, if the money is as good as you say, I'll take his place. Yer in Houston, right?

badstonebass · #8 09-17-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4mospd

EQ, he's going straight into the PA. I don't know if you're familiar with the BOSE, but the EQ sucks. In fact, I think the whole thing sucks, but I didn't buy it and I don't have to haul it!

Ya...I saw those things. I thoght it was the dumbest idea I ever saw. maybe for an acoustic gig, but for a BAND!?!? No Way!

Oh well, Good Luck.

need4mospd · #9 09-18-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badstonebass

Ya...I saw those things. I thoght it was the dumbest idea I ever saw. maybe for an acoustic gig, but for a BAND!?!? No Way!

Oh well, Good Luck.

Don't get me wrong, it's loud enough for a full band if you have enough towers. The bottom end is ok, but lacks some depth. No one in the audience will care too much about the sound quality anyways. Bar managers are SERIOUSLY impressed with it, and they are VERY happy there isn't some crazy over-powered huge system taking up space and blasting out ear drums. Those couple reasons are worth considering that system alone. When the entire PA takes two trips with a single four wheel dolly and it's set up in 10 minutes....I have a hard time complaining about the sound quality...

need4mospd · #10 09-18-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjolnir2730

Yup, cut yer losses.

Hell, if the money is as good as you say, I'll take his place. Yer in Houston, right?

Haha...saw in your profile you're in Missouri City, that's where I grew up...

mjolnir · #11 09-18-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4mospd

Haha...saw in your profile you're in Missouri City, that's where I grew up...

All the more reason to hire me! Ya never know, your family could know mine...

How's it goin' with the deviant anyways?
Any improvement?

badstonebass · #12 09-18-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4mospd

Don't get me wrong, it's loud enough for a full band if you have enough towers. The bottom end is ok, but lacks some depth. No one in the audience will care too much about the sound quality anyways. Bar managers are SERIOUSLY impressed with it, and they are VERY happy there isn't some crazy over-powered huge system taking up space and blasting out ear drums. Those couple reasons are worth considering that system alone. When the entire PA takes two trips with a single four wheel dolly and it's set up in 10 minutes....I have a hard time complaining about the sound quality...

Hey, the portability is great that's for sure.

How the heck do you monitor....or get a good mix?? Just wondering. They are definately interesting.

Just because you carry a PA doesn't mean you have to BLAST everybody in sight. I play in a rock band and we carry some big stuff, we never get complaints though because we use it for QUALITY.....not VOLUME. Even before I was in this band I was a fan and found the MIX to be the best I have heard at ANY level for a long time.

Maybe it's because we use OLD gear....they don't make it like they used to.

Smallmouth_Bass · #13 09-18-2007, 10:53 AM

Everyone probably hears everything different or prefers a different mix. It looks like he likes his volume loud in relation to everyone else if the consensus is that he's too loud.

How does he practice? I practice in headphones and when I play with music, my volume is loud in relation to it. If you get used to that sound, you can get used to wanting to hear yourself more when in a full band setting. I am working at practicing with a more blended volume now.

Steve Clark · #14 09-18-2007, 10:57 AM

"Wine and Cheese tasting at the Country Club"

Sure doesn't sound like a loud gig. Sounds like a wallpaper gig as opposed to a performance. While there are many exceptions to the rule as far as genre are concerned it seems to me that the music should be loud enough for people to listen but quiet enough that they can still talk and pick each other up and. . .well you know.

I might suggest that everyone turn down together and go from there and experiment with dynamics. That might be where to get this player to open his/her ears. Bring the band right down when the vocalist comes in after a solo or something.

Oberg · #15 09-18-2007, 02:32 PM

the bose tower, with all those small speakers needs to be a cuple of meters/more feet away so that u get the whole speaker power, try placing his tower on the other side of the room pointing @ him!

need4mospd · #16 09-18-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjolnir2730

All the more reason to hire me! Ya never know, your family could know mine...

How's it goin' with the deviant anyways?
Any improvement?

We practice in Conroe, hope you get good gas mileage!

I'll report back Thursday night, or Friday morning if things go well....

need4mospd · #17 09-18-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badstonebass

Hey, the portability is great that's for sure.

How the heck do you monitor....or get a good mix?? Just wondering. They are definately interesting.

Just because you carry a PA doesn't mean you have to BLAST everybody in sight. I play in a rock band and we carry some big stuff, we never get complaints though because we use it for QUALITY.....not VOLUME. Even before I was in this band I was a fan and found the MIX to be the best I have heard at ANY level for a long time.

Maybe it's because we use OLD gear....they don't make it like they used to.

The towers ARE the monitors. Supposedly, you hear what the audience hears. So if we hear the keyboards too much, the keyboards are too much! We'll see, we haven't cranked it up full volume yet.

No doubt a big PA CAN be turned down, it just seems to never happen so it can scare off some people. These little Bose towers wouldn't scare off my grandma.

need4mospd · #18 09-18-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

Everyone probably hears everything different or prefers a different mix. It looks like he likes his volume loud in relation to everyone else if the consensus is that he's too loud.

How does he practice? I practice in headphones and when I play with music, my volume is loud in relation to it. If you get used to that sound, you can get used to wanting to hear yourself more when in a full band setting. I am working at practicing with a more blended volume now.

He is a well seasoned musician, probably used to his own monitor, and probably a little deaf.... I'll ask him how he practices, but I don't think he practices much. He knows most of the music already.

need4mospd · #19 09-18-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Clark

"Wine and Cheese tasting at the Country Club"

Sure doesn't sound like a loud gig. Sounds like a wallpaper gig as opposed to a performance. While there are many exceptions to the rule as far as genre are concerned it seems to me that the music should be loud enough for people to listen but quiet enough that they can still talk and pick each other up and. . .well you know.

I might suggest that everyone turn down together and go from there and experiment with dynamics. That might be where to get this player to open his/her ears. Bring the band right down when the vocalist comes in after a solo or something.

We're certainly not expecting to be rockstars here.

I believe we are expected to perform as background entertainment, getting a little more funky later on in the night.

need4mospd · #20 09-18-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberg

the bose tower, with all those small speakers needs to be a cuple of meters/more feet away so that u get the whole speaker power, try placing his tower on the other side of the room pointing @ him!

The tower he was playing through last time was 6-7 feet away from him. We've switched things around a couple times. Honestly, I don't hear much of a difference from 3-10 feet, or off to the side and directly in front of it. There is a bit more sparkle directly in front, but the tone and volume don't change much.