Is there a minimum age to lead a cover band?

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Nobody knows anything

[Tituscrow]

I think your biggest problem will be recruiting guys willing to play Tool and Mötley Crüe in the same set

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by ILLINOX

its not a rule, but being in a cover band is usually left to the older fellas that have stopped trying to sell their own songs. so you may have trouble being accepted into the circle. But that's pretty much where the best money is these days; playing covers.

good luck

Most bands start out doing covers in their teens and 20's. For some people that's all they want to do. There are many more cover bands than there are original.

Age should never be a factor in anything. Ability and having a good attitude are much more important.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by jaywa

Is that the same whether it's a 3-man or 6-man band?

Not trying to be a smart-azz but clubs in these parts pay by the band (not per man). $750-800 (average rate in this market for a veteran bar band) break out pretty nicely across 3 or 4 players... Not so much if you've got 5 or 6.

You'll also need to decide if you're gonna cut yourself in for an extra % of the pay in exchange for taking on booking and other typical BL functions

Same here. It's not by the member, but by the band.

And cover bands DON'T NEED a LEADER. Just get with a couple of guys you can get along with and make decisions together. I can't tell you how many horror stories of bad band leaders there are here. Don't be that guy. Divide labor evenly.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Same here. It's not by the member, but by the band.

And cover bands DON'T NEED a LEADER. Just get with a couple of guys you can get along with and make decisions together. I can't tell you how many horror stories of bad band leaders there are here. Don't be that guy. Divide labor evenly.

A cover band is no different than an originals band. There are upsides and downsides to having a leader. There are definitely downsides to having a democracy.

[pklima]

Yup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1QDlWbS8g or http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...XkdC5dE8#t=89s - it's not an easy choice.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

ESPECIALLY you.

You know what's successful FOR YOU.

I have read dozens of your posts, and there is no poster on this board who brings out my desire to portray the other side of things than you.

Your posts are very narrow, and relate well to YOUR experiences. I have no doubt you are intelligent, and truthful, in telling YOUR story.

But there are literally MILLIONS of different stories, and what "won't work" in your experience "WILL work" for someone else.

Nobody knows anything.

That is the approach that brings FRESH ideas to music or art.

Every sensible, successful and established painter told Picasso that his cubism was the WRONG way to do it.

And the first time a guitar amp made the sound of feedback, it was considered a MISTAKE.

This kid should put together a group of people, play some music, and find out what he has.

It will succeed, or it will fail. Either way, he will have the EXPERIENCE of doing it.

Nobody knows anything.

Certainly not you.

[Jazzdogg]

The age of competence is a moving target; some are able to hit the bullseye despite their fairly recent birth, while others miss continually, despite their extended time on the planet.

The ability to communicate, manage the expectations of others, and coordinate musical aspirations isn't a task for the faint of heart, but I've seen it done successfully by folks of all ages.

[millertx]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

To the OP: just put it out there what kind of a project you want to create. You'll have de facto leadership just by default, as the group's founder, and anyone who signs on will presumably accept that, while anyone who won't, probably won't sign on in the first place.

+1000

Yep, it doesn't hurt to try, you know you will make some good decisions and you will make mistakes, its how we learn. Do the best you can to surround yourself with good people who can do the job.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

ESPECIALLY you.

You know what's successful FOR YOU.

I have read dozens of your posts, and there is no poster on this board who brings out my desire to portray the other side of things than you.

Your posts are very narrow, and relate well to YOUR experiences. I have no doubt you are intelligent, and truthful, in telling YOUR story.

But there are literally MILLIONS of different stories, and what "won't work" in your experience "WILL work" for someone else.

Nobody knows anything.

That is the approach that brings FRESH ideas to music or art.

Every sensible, successful and established painter told Picasso that his cubism was the WRONG way to do it.

And the first time a guitar amp made the sound of feedback, it was considered a MISTAKE.

This kid should put together a group of people, play some music, and find out what he has.

It will succeed, or it will fail. Either way, he will have the EXPERIENCE of doing it.

Nobody knows anything.

Certainly not you.

You might be projecting a bit with this "nobody knows anything" statement.

While there are numerous different ways to organize and promote a cover band, there are certain skill sets needed that are somewhat universal:

1. You have to pick great music that appeals to your target audience,
2. You have to have an established network of bars and venues to pitch
3. You have to have marketing material, either print or online, to promote your band
4. You have to have a way to connect with your audience to get them to attend your shows,
5. You have to pick talented musicians that are capable of working with a group and staying engaged (or managing a stable of subs)

I could go on, but that's just off the top of my head. While there might be some inexperienced 17 year olds out there that could pull this together and make a go of it (largely performing in venues in which they probably aren't allowed due to age) but that is rare. People don't often take direction well from a leader that is pulling stuff out of his butt and making it up as he goes along.

Just like on TB, those with little knowledge and experience are readily discovered.

[pklima]

From that five-point list, I think 17-year-olds have a big advantage over experienced veterans when it comes to #1 and #4.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by pklima

From that five-point list, I think 17-year-olds have a big advantage over experienced veterans when it comes to #1 and #4.

Depends. As far as picking songs, they could be great or terrible depending on what types of venues they target. And I know lots of "older" guys who are great at online media. One of my band members (41 years old) actually does it for a living.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

You might be projecting a bit with this "nobody knows anything" statement.

While there are numerous different ways to organize and promote a cover band, there are certain skill sets needed that are somewhat universal:

1. You have to pick great music that appeals to your target audience,
2. You have to have an established network of bars and venues to pitch
3. You have to have marketing material, either print or online, to promote your band
4. You have to have a way to connect with your audience to get them to attend your shows,
5. You have to pick talented musicians that are capable of working with a group and staying engaged (or managing a stable of subs)

I could go on, but that's just off the top of my head. While there might be some inexperienced 17 year olds out there that could pull this together and make a go of it (largely performing in venues in which they probably aren't allowed due to age) but that is rare. People don't often take direction well from a leader that is pulling stuff out of his butt and making it up as he goes along.

Just like on TB, those with little knowledge and experience are readily discovered.

Looks like you've been discovered.

The majority of your post is a complete pant-load.

I've seen plenty of cover bands that only met one or two of your requirements, and seen them do well.

They had that other thing.

That thing you seem to have forgotten about.

They happened to have the good fortune of being the right act, that was in the right place, at the right time.

The only thing you can advise people on is the conventional way to create a pedestrian, fairly uninteresting, professional act.

Because that's YOUR experience.

Maybe that's not what everyone is out to do.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Looks like you've been discovered.

The majority of your post is a complete pant-load.

I've seen plenty of cover bands that only met one or two of your requirements, and seen them do well.

They had that other thing.

That thing you seem to have forgotten about.

They happened to have the good fortune of being the right act, that was in the right place, at the right time.

The only thing you can advise people on is the conventional way to create a pedestrian, fairly uninteresting, professional act.

Because that's YOUR experience.

Maybe that's not what everyone is out to do.

Relying on dumb luck to be successful is as wise as using the lottery as retirement planning. Success typically comes from hard work and experience. But, when you don't have that, count on luck.

I'd also point out that you can have a fun, unique band, and still be organized and professional. Get the right mix of people, the right music, and you can avoid playing Zeppelin covers to disinterested crowds. Many, many musicians ignore the business side of what we do, relying on either dumb luck or the effort of others to make up for their shortsightedness.

Back on topic: the average 17 year old with no experience would have to take your advice and rely on dumb luck, because he really has nothing else to fall back on. He might be successful, but it's really unlikely. A better idea would be for this boy to join an established band, learn the ropes, and make some contacts.

We really need to get you typing in paragraphs.......

[cloverkeys]

Can you do it? Of course, you'd be foolish to listen to anyone who says you can't do something for any reason. You won't be the first band being headed by a younger than 20s guy and you won't be the last.

Your already making some of your own money, thats the first step.

As someone who has never had a real job, trust me, people are always going to highlight the problems with doing what your doing.

If you want to do it, do it.. deal with issues as they come, learn, continue.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Relying on dumb luck to be successful is as wise as using the lottery as retirement planning. Success typically comes from hard work and experience. But, when you don't have that, count on luck.

I'd also point out that you can have a fun, unique band, and still be organized and professional. Get the right mix of people, the right music, and you can avoid playing Zeppelin covers to disinterested crowds. Many, many musicians ignore the business side of what we do, relying on either dumb luck or the effort of others to make up for their shortsightedness.

Back on topic: the average 17 year old with no experience would have to take your advice and rely on dumb luck, because he really has nothing else to fall back on. He might be successful, but it's really unlikely. A better idea would be for this boy to join an established band, learn the ropes, and make some contacts.

We really need to get you typing in paragraphs.......

For everything you know about the music business, there are literally thousands of things you don't. As I said, you have a keen understanding of how you, and others like you, have made it to where they are, but you have shown almost none regarding how anyone else has made it to their place in the scheme of things. There are a number of things you don't seem to be accounting for:

1. The business is always changing
2. Different people have differing ideas of what success is
3. Every market is different

Any FOOL can put together a cover band, and get gigs. There is virtually no one alive who cannot do this relatively simple thing. It is just that easy.

How could you possibly fail?

1. Put together enough individuals to play the material you want to play
2. Rehearse until the material is even a little bit passable
3. Print up some very basic promo material
4. Approach venues until someone says, "you got a gig."

Any moron can do this. Anybody who has done this, and thinks they have actually accomplished something unique or interesting is vastly overstating their abilities and achievements. It is no more difficult than finding a job.

If a 17 year old finds a few other players, he can legally play clubs and bars in Florida, where the OP is posting from. There is no reason to think he will have any serious amount of trouble at least getting a couple of gigs. As far as reaching YOUR opinion of success; that could be a different matter. But can he do it? Of course he can, and I'll wager, he probably will.

You're a very negative, and narrow poster. You think you've accomplished something, and kudos to you for fooling yourself. I happen to think I have accomplished nothing to be particularly proud of, because I haven't sold original songs; gotten so I don't need a day job, or become an accomplished studio player.

But those are MY standards. Some people think rising to level of B Grade Cover band makes them a celebrity. My question to them is always the same:

Do you have a Wikipedia page?

Because if you don't, you might be successful, but you sure as hell are not a celebrity.

The kid will be fine, but he should stay away from people like you, who are simply too limited in their thinking.

New thought; new paragraph.

Being that I have written exactly ONE more novel than you, I don't really need any lessons in structure.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Any FOOL can put together a cover band, and get gigs. There is virtually no one alive who cannot do this relatively simple thing. It is just that easy.

Really, then why do so many guys that try to start cover bands fail?

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

The kid will be fine, but he should stay away from people like you, who are simply too limited in their thinking.

New thought; new paragraph.

Being that I have written exactly ONE more novel than you, I don't really need any lessons in structure.

Mellow man,

I'm not going to be-labor all of the issues here. However here's my position.

I agree with guy n.cognito and totally disagree with you.

Respectively

Blue

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

For everything you know about the music business, there are literally thousands of things you don't. As I said, you have a keen understanding of how you, and others like you, have made it to where they are, but you have shown almost none regarding how anyone else has made it to their place in the scheme of things. There are a number of things you don't seem to be accounting for:

1. The business is always changing
2. Different people have differing ideas of what success is
3. Every market is different

Any FOOL can put together a cover band, and get gigs. There is virtually no one alive who cannot do this relatively simple thing. It is just that easy.

How could you possibly fail?

1. Put together enough individuals to play the material you want to play
2. Rehearse until the material is even a little bit passable
3. Print up some very basic promo material
4. Approach venues until someone says, "you got a gig."

Any moron can do this. Anybody who has done this, and thinks they have actually accomplished something unique or interesting is vastly overstating their abilities and achievements. It is no more difficult than finding a job.

If a 17 year old finds a few other players, he can legally play clubs and bars in Florida, where the OP is posting from. There is no reason to think he will have any serious amount of trouble at least getting a couple of gigs. As far as reaching YOUR opinion of success; that could be a different matter. But can he do it? Of course he can, and I'll wager, he probably will.

You're a very negative, and narrow poster. You think you've accomplished something, and kudos to you for fooling yourself. I happen to think I have accomplished nothing to be particularly proud of, because I haven't sold original songs; gotten so I don't need a day job, or become an accomplished studio player.

But those are MY standards. Some people think rising to level of B Grade Cover band makes them a celebrity. My question to them is always the same:

Do you have a Wikipedia page?

Because if you don't, you might be successful, but you sure as hell are not a celebrity.

The kid will be fine, but he should stay away from people like you, who are simply too limited in their thinking.

New thought; new paragraph.

Being that I have written exactly ONE more novel than you, I don't really need any lessons in structure.

As always, Richard, you have a flair for the dramatic and have grossly overstated my points. And, as always, there seems to be a significant amount of projection in your posts.

The comment "nobody knows anything" sends the message that there's nothing to learn from those that are older, wiser or more experienced. As I stated above, one can ignore any conventional wisdom they can learn from others and just wing it. Hey, they might get lucky; even a broken clock is right twice a day. The chance of that, however, are slim. Most older, wiser players would know that, and they wouldn't waste their time with a band with an inexperienced 17 year old band leader.

The OP wants to know if older players will work with a 17 year old BL....with no cover band experience. The answer that he got overwhelmingly from the group here is "no"....for all the reason others and I gave above. Can he try anyway? Sure, if he wants. But, he asked for the opinions of others, and he got them. Even at 17, he seems to understand that "nobody knows anything" is a silly sentiment.

As you say, anyone can put together a mediocre cover band and get a few gigs. And if that is the intent of the OP, then he should just follow your advice, throw together whomever show up and give it a go. I would guess, however, that he strives beyond mediocrity, which is why he is asking the question. He's asking for the collective experience of more seasoned musicians, and he's getting it.

If the OP is truly interested in getting into the cover band world, then he would be well-served by joining a few existing bands, in order to find out what works and what doesn't. Then he'll better equipped to start his own band and make a success of it.

[bluewine]

[quote="mellowinman"]

For everything you know about the music business, there are literally thousands of things you don't. As I said, you have a keen understanding of how you, and others like you, have made it to where they are, but you have shown almost none regarding how anyone else has made it to their place in the scheme of things. There are a number of things you don't seem to be accounting for:

1. The business is always changing

" Not that much"

2. Different people have differing ideas of what success is

"True, even noodling in the bedroom is success to some."


3. Every market is different

"Yes, but there are a lot of similarities"

Any FOOL can put together a cover band, and get gigs. There is virtually no one alive who cannot do this relatively simple thing. It is just that easy.

"Absolutely not, as a matter of fact very few have the abilities, capabilities or resources to put together a working cover band."

How could you possibly fail?

1. Put together enough individuals to play the material you want to play

" Where are you going to find experienced players that want to join a start up band?"
2. Rehearse until the material is even a little bit passable
3. Print up some very basic promo material

"What if you don't know how to create promo material?"

4. Approach venues until someone says, "you got a gig."

"That could take years"

Any moron can do this. Anybody who has done this, and thinks they have actually accomplished something unique or interesting is vastly overstating their abilities and achievements. It is no more difficult than finding a job.

"No again, they have done something most can't "

If a 17 year old finds a few other players, he can legally play clubs and bars in Florida, where the OP is posting from. There is no reason to think he will have any serious amount of trouble at least getting a couple of gigs. As far as reaching YOUR opinion of success; that could be a different matter. But can he do it? Of course he can, and I'll wager, he probably will.

It will be extremely difficult for any 17 year old to break into the bar/club gig business."

You're a very negative, and narrow poster.

"Not negative at all, more like honest and realistic."



But those are MY standards. Some people think rising to level of B Grade Cover band makes them a celebrity.

"No, but it's an accomplishment just the same."


Blue