Is there a minimum age to lead a cover band?

[obimark]

Man anyone who thinks it isn't difficult to find a job these days has not been forced to look for one. That is a pure crap statement. I can tell you it is very tough, after my company laid me off, and the worst part I am overqualified now for the few jobs available, because I have too much experience.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I've seen plenty of cover bands that only met one or two of your requirements, and seen them do well.

I haven't and I see my fair share of cover bands.

Blue

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

But those are MY standards. Some people think rising to level of B Grade Cover band makes them a celebrity.

"No, but it's an accomplishment just the same."


Blue

You seem to make it work....

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

As always, Richard, you have a flair for the dramatic and have grossly overstated my points. And, as always, there seems to be a significant amount of projection in your posts.

The comment "nobody knows anything" sends the message that there's nothing to learn from those that are older, wiser or more experienced. As I stated above, one can ignore any conventional wisdom they can learn from others and just wing it. Hey, they might get lucky; even a broken clock is right twice a day. The chance of that, however, are slim. Most older, wiser players would know that, and they wouldn't waste their time with a band with an inexperienced 17 year old band leader.

The OP wants to know if older players will work with a 17 year old BL....with no cover band experience. The answer that he got overwhelmingly from the group here is "no"....for all the reason others and I gave above. Can he try anyway? Sure, if he wants. But, he asked for the opinions of others, and he got them. Even at 17, he seems to understand that "nobody knows anything" is a silly sentiment.

As you say, anyone can put together a mediocre cover band and get a few gigs. And if that is the intent of the OP, then he should just follow your advice, throw together whomever show up and give it a go. I would guess, however, that he strives beyond mediocrity, which is why he is asking the question. He's asking for the collective experience of more seasoned musicians, and he's getting it.

If the OP is truly interested in getting into the cover band world, then he would be well-served by joining a few existing bands, in order to find out what works and what doesn't. Then he'll better equipped to start his own band and make a success of it.

No, it is you who misunderstands the entire premise of the thread.

The OP asked "any of you SLIGHTLY older guys..."

That does not include you, or most of the people who responded.

I'm pretty sure he would like to work with his peers, and keep the band fairly young. I don't care what you or "the group" has to say. I read what you had to say, and I disagreed. I believe the OP not only CAN put together a successful cover band, I think he SHOULD.

Anyone who works in generic, corporate friendly cover bands has NO REASON to talk about being "above mediocrity," as you have never breathed that rarified air. Generic, corporate cover bands are the very DEFINITION of mediocrity, and they present little more in the way of entertainment than a really good DJ, Karaoke or Juke Box.

People play music for different reasons. I wholeheartedly disagree with you and "the group" about virtually every aspect of this topic. My first show was in 1979. I have played in cover bands, original acts, and done my share of pro recording, and had a tiny taste of success in the business, however I don't consider myself anything close to an expert.

How any of you can consider yourselves to be anything above that is beyond me. The kid could easily put together a VERY GOOD cover band, that has about TEN TIMES as much chance of MAKING IT in the business than ANY OF US.

If they gel, and write some originals, they could actually wind up in the big time. Almost every act that ever did make it followed that exact path.

Who CARES if they won't get hired to play corporate functions? Who CARES whether or not they play the "A List Clubs?" All they need to do is get some gigs, and get out there and get some experience. If the kid joins a bunch of experienced players in existing bands, he might just wind up with a bunch of deadenders such as you and "the group."

And that's not what he needs.

The FACT is, he can play bass. Anyone who can play bass can start a band, and without being a rocket scientist, can make it onto the local scene playing covers.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by obimark

Man anyone who thinks it isn't difficult to find a job these days has not been forced to look for one. That is a pure crap statement. I can tell you it is very tough, after my company laid me off, and the worst part I am overqualified now for the few jobs available, because I have too much experience.

Who said it wasn't difficult finding a job? I said getting gigs is no more difficult than finding a job.

And by the way, you could probably find a job doing work that is far beneath you, if you wanted to go that route. I am 49 years old, and I have done everything from fast food to taxi driving to fine dining to the mortgage industry to annuities; on and on and on. I aspire to get good jobs with decent pay and benefits, but when it comes time to just survive, I would go to Burger King RIGHT NOW if I had to.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Really, then why do so many guys that try to start cover bands fail?

Blue

I don't know. I've never started a cover band and then failed.

I've seen plenty of guys go out there, start a not-mediocre-but-downright-awful cover band, and get gigs. But they weren't guys who loved music, and when they figured out how hard they'd have to work for very little money, and even less love, they decided they weren't that into it.

They didn't "fail."

They gave up.

NO ONE should ever fail at something as simple as playing covers.

[jive1]

At 17, tuition in the school of life is cheap. Get out there, make some mistakes and take some risks. You will never have a cheaper opportunity cost than now. Don't be afraid to fail, and if you do, you can always try again.

In terms of having a well rounded musical experience, I think everyone should take a shot at being a BL and as a hired gun. It gives you a better picture of how things work and why. The experience itself may answer those questions of "why does/doesn't this band do xxx?"

Talent and knowledge are key, but they are no replacement for time in the woods. Be prepared for a long haul towards gaining experience. Here's a piece of advice given to me as a youth that I have found true many many timesover the years: "Experience and treachery will always defeat youth and enthusiasm".

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by jive1

At 17, tuition in the school of life is cheap. Get out there, make some mistakes and take some risks. You will never have a cheaper opportunity cost than now. Don't be afraid to fail, and if you do, you can always try again.

In terms of having a well rounded musical experience, I think everyone should take a shot at being a BL and as a hired gun. It gives you a better picture of how things work and why. The experience itself may answer those questions of "why does/doesn't this band do xxx?"

Talent and knowledge are key, but they are no replacement for time in the woods. Be prepared for a long haul towards gaining experience. Here's a piece of advice given to me as a youth that I have found true many many timesover the years: "Experience and treachery will always defeat youth and enthusiasm".

Especially the treachery.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

NO ONE should ever fail at something as simple as playing covers.

Hi Mellowinman,

Do you mean simple for you?

I'm in a working cover band, it's not simple for me?

Blue

Attachment 303411



Blue

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Hi Mellowinman,

Do you mean simple for you?

I'm in a working cover band, it's not simple for me?

Blue

Attachment 303411



Blue

C'mon, Blue.

You're not having any trouble at all.

Just play your thing, man.

[WokenDeer]

I haven't read everything through. But why would anyone suggest he not try it out. What's the worse that could happen. He's got plenty of time to try again or learn or whatever. You have to start somewhere right.

And also being 17 I don't think he's worried about being the next big cover band in the region yet, and if that doesn't happen. More power to him right?

Don't discourage the young and ambitious. Unless of course one happens to be a neo nazi.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

C'mon, Blue.

You're not having any trouble at all.

Just play your thing, man.

I might not be having trouble, I said that it's not simple.

No band is perfect, my band is no different.

Blue

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I don't know. I've never started a cover band and then failed.

I've seen plenty of guys go out there, start a not-mediocre-but-downright-awful cover band, and get gigs. But they weren't guys who loved music, and when they figured out how hard they'd have to work for very little money, and even less love, they decided they weren't that into it.

They didn't "fail."

They gave up.

NO ONE should ever fail at something as simple as playing covers.

People fail at cover bands all the time. They let the fact that they continue to con club owners into low paying gigs convince then otherwise.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Anyone who works in generic, corporate friendly cover bands has NO REASON to talk about being "above mediocrity," as you have never breathed that rarified air. Generic, corporate cover bands are the very DEFINITION of mediocrity, and they present little more in the way of entertainment than a really good DJ, Karaoke or Juke Box.

The FACT is, he can play bass. Anyone who can play bass can start a band, and without being a rocket scientist, can make it onto the local scene playing covers.

More projection. There are some great cover bands out there that are way more than a juke box. And there are plenty of people out there that, despite there best efforts, can't form a band like that.

To say that anyone can make it into the local cover scene is like saying anyone has found career success when they score a job at McDonald's.

[TripleDouble]

I think it's awesome you're so young and already being realistic about how to actually make ANY money in the music biz. dont listen to naysayers here, my friend and I started a cover band when we were 20 (I'm 38 now) and we did just fine on a small time level, but did make enough money to (almost) get by at times. We had older players and players our age. Some of the older players helped us out, others were divas and either quit or we stopped using them. And by the time we were 25, we sorta knew what we were doing.

I would certainly be considered "older" now, and if you took care of running the band and offered to pay me my required rate (and actually did), I would play with your group.

[MrLenny1]

No, go for it. if you made $2000 in 6 months you know what you are doing.
Most bandleaders I worked with did not know much about managing but
knew a lot about drinking.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

More projection. There are some great cover bands out there that are way more than a juke box. And there are plenty of people out there that, despite there best efforts, can't form a band like that.

To say that anyone can make it into the local cover scene is like saying anyone has found career success when they score a job at McDonald's.

Posts like these are exactly why I tell the OP that posters like you DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.

There are, indeed some great cover bands out there. You haven't made a point by saying that.

[obimark]

Not to derail this thread, but even if I want to go work at Burger King or Radio Shack, they will ask my job history and check it. Then tell me I am overqualified with 2 college degrees.

Typically, they don't hire masters degree people who were making six figures because they KNOW you will blow out as soon as you get a better job. Its a catch 22, part of me would love a TURN-off my brain UPS dayjob, rather than the high-stress 10 people answering to me job I was laid off from.

I am SO TIRED of hearing this bogus statement (and BTW I actually did work at 7 mc Jobs while putting myself thru college, so I do have some experience of what I speak)

Its so EASY for people to say, "OH, If I am laid off I'd take a job at Burger King"... reality, it isn't going to happen, and it won't pay ANYWHERE near enough for any family to live off either. $5.15 an hour here in GA even if somehow you falsify your last 20 years of work history and don't get caught.>

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by WokenDeer

I haven't read everything through. But why would anyone suggest he not try it out. What's the worse that could happen. He's got plenty of time to try again or learn or whatever. You have to start somewhere right.

And also being 17 I don't think he's worried about being the next big cover band in the region yet, and if that doesn't happen. More power to him right?

Don't discourage the young and ambitious. Unless of course one happens to be a neo nazi.

No reason he shouldn't try, but he also shouldn't expect experienced players to look at him as a competent leader.

[MarkMgibson]

Some good gritty debate on this thread - good stuff!

I did my first gig on my 17th birthday in a cover band. The leaders of the band were about 20 and the band had been gigging for about a year. So they started the band when they were little older than you, and it was quite successful (success is a relative term, especially when you're 17y.o).

If you're both confident enough and a good enough musician, I think you'll find older musicians who will work with you. When I say "older", I mean a few years older, not 10 or 15 years older, but then that's probably not who you're looking for anyway.

The only problem I foresee is this: Start-up bands, especially young ones, often run at a loss for quite some time, mostly because you won't have the gear you need, and you'll have to lease equipment, and then use your earnings (and they won't be much at first) to buy gear bit by bit. If you have some spare cash, no problems. I you don't, it could be problematic. Just keep this in mind, and try to work out what equipment you'll need, what it's going to cost, and point this fact out when auditioning people.

Otherwise, go for it. If it fails, who cares? You will have gained some good experience.