Tips on getting gigs w/o pay-2-play?

asis · #1 02-01-2009, 01:48 AM

So do u guys have any tips on what 2 do in order to get gigs without paying. We seem 2 only do pay-2-play n i tell the band we shouldn't do that cause the only people seeing us are the friends we sold tickets to. They say "well what are we supposed to do"
please give me some advise.

ehque · #2 02-01-2009, 02:02 AM

Get better, or get a better band.

Depends on your location, though.

If you're paying to play, that's how much you're worth. Who is going to pay you to play, if you'll pay anyway?

atheos · #3 02-01-2009, 02:23 AM

Good bands with some reputation that will bring money to the venue and increase booze sales will get paid. Bad never-heard bands that will mostly drive the customers away will often have to pay. See the difference here?

Well, seriously, even good bands sometimes have to pay if they're unknown and/or in the beginning of their career. Write good songs or do GOOD covers and do a couple killer gigs to get a good reputation and you eventually get paid instead of having to pay.

Skarekrough · #4 02-01-2009, 03:58 AM

Get better.

Get a better demo and press kit.

Work with a booking agent.

Run your own shows and make sure all bands get paid.

Open for bands getting paid for a nominal fee.

Masher88 · #5 02-01-2009, 05:38 AM

on the flip side, there are some clubs that only do shows that make you sell tickets...no matter what status you are. Boycott them. Tell all your friends and other bands to not bother with those clubs

JustDavid · #6 02-01-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masher88

Boycott them.

RIGHT ON!!!

p.s. thread is likely to get moved. I'd guess into Band Management.

spade2you · #7 02-01-2009, 08:27 AM

+1 on band management.

A lot of band stuff will be determined by the locale. I live in an area where original bands don't make jack and cover bands make money, but not a lot. As long as there are people willing to either pay to play or play for free, nothin' is gonna change.

Jim C · #8 02-01-2009, 08:36 AM

What part of the country?
Big city?
All of the above is solid advice.

asis · #9 02-01-2009, 04:01 PM

thanks for the advise.
Were a newly formed band. Well, I'm the newest member to make it a complete band. I'm against the pay2play but i get outvoted. I think we need to make friends with other bands.
Were in LA county area, which isn't a hard place to find other bands.

Zappstorius · #10 02-01-2009, 06:10 PM

Unfortunatley you are residing in the Pay to Play capitol of the world my friend. More bands in LA County than anywhere in the world IME. Try putting on some shows of your own: warehouse gigs, basement, house parties etc. Or keep beating the bushes to find some venue that isn't pay to play.

fdeck · #11 02-01-2009, 06:18 PM

I think if you disagree with P2P, then you have to be the one to do something about it. Your options are to tell the band that they can do the P2P thing so long as they pay you a guarantee, or, keep your eyes open for a more ambitious band. My personal rule is that "pay to play" includes paying the bass player.

JohnnyPustular · #12 02-01-2009, 06:51 PM

The first thing that you need to do is to interalize the reality that if you want to get paid to play, then you must see your music as a product that people will pay for. Its not about the music, its about the money. That's why cover bands make money and originals bands don't.

The reason why you find live music in bars is because it brings in people who buy drinks. This is the same reason that bars have karioke, pool tables, naked women, etc.

You will be the best paid band in LA county if you pack the house every time you play. You make money for the bar owner and he will pay you.

Would you go watch your band play? Do you often go out and watch bands you never heard of? Of course not. Orient yourself to bringing people in the door.

So the better question is: How do I get people to come to my show (so I can get paid)? You could play dancable covers very well. This usually works. Don't want to do that? Then you need to give them another reason to come out.

Watch the Guns & Roses Behind the Scenes. They tell you how they did it. Basically, they spent their days posting flyers on every telephone pole in LA, handing out flyers to people and spent their nights putting on a huge show. Some bands use fire, some use blood, some use naked girls, gg allen deficated on stage (no one wanted to see him crap- they just wanted to see if he would really do it and to be part of something unusual). If you hire a convicted seriel killer to be your lead singer, I guarantee you will never have to pay to play again. Or put an old, burned out LA hair band rocker in your band. "Dude- isn't that the band that has the guitar player from Cinderella?"

Here's an idea I've rarely seen bands do-- take out a big a$$ ad in the local entertainment weekly. Write a computer program that stuffs the ballot box for the on-line Best of LA website. Or start your own Best of LA and give yourself the win. Put Johnny Depp in your band. Or Kevin Bacon. Or Don Knotts. Or Tommy Lasorda.

Why do you think Kiss wears make-up and puts on a huge show? Why do you think Alice Cooper used to cut his head off at every show? Who do you think started the rumor that Ozzy bit the head off a bat? Make people want to see you. Be creative.

JohnnyPustular · #13 02-01-2009, 06:52 PM

BTW-- Really good music is also a great gimmick.

MaxRossell · #14 02-01-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappstorius

Unfortunatley you are residing in the Pay to Play capitol of the world my friend. More bands in LA County than anywhere in the world IME. Try putting on some shows of your own: warehouse gigs, basement, house parties etc. Or keep beating the bushes to find some venue that isn't pay to play.

Amen on this score.

If you're still a smallish band, you have the luxury of booking tiny little places for a handful of change that you'll make back as long as you get ten people in charging a couple of bux on the door. You get to set your own terms, and if you're good with promo you can pack the place out. There's really no reason why you can't put on your own gigs and make it work for you and your fans way better.

Take this for an example. Last pay-to-play gig my previous band did before we swore off them forever, our crowd paid five pounds (UK) to get in, had to sit through three crappy bands they didn't want to hear, and then got a twenty-minute set from us. Oh, and the soundguy was drunk before soundcheck so we sounded awful.

Compare that to the last show we put on ourselves, we booked one support act that we knew our crowd would like, we hired a soundguy we could trust, did LESS promotion than it took to fulfil the above pay-to-play deal, and still made a nice profit with people paying TWO pounds to get in. And our crowd got to watch us play for almost an hour.

DIY is king, my friend. Take the power back.

Kenny Allyn · #15 02-01-2009, 07:43 PM

My favorite rant ... is against P2P

It's been stated well in this thread too many crappy bands with high hopes, 20 minute sets, and then having to sit through all of that because it's considered proper protocal.

Do what it takes to get out there, but Pay to Play is not the way. Self promote, learn and or write several hours worth of music, hell do covers to get gigs and add in your originals.

... But get the 800 pound P2P Gorilla off your back!

Jim Campbell · #16 02-02-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masher88

on the flip side, there are some clubs that only do shows that make you sell tickets...no matter what status you are. Boycott them. Tell all your friends and other bands to not bother with those clubs

before you run off half cocked and start dissin' clubs in your area just remember that its you that has to live there....a lot of guys will tell you dont do this or that but they may not be in a position where they have to......it is entirely unfair for guys who already have their piece of the pie to ask you to fight a battle you have little chance of winning,and that most of them no longer have to fight....they most likely wont be there when you need help....figure out how the game is played where you live,and act accordingly

**T. B. Player** · #17 02-02-2009, 05:25 PM

Bar and venue owners are tired of booking gigs, no one showing up, having a contract to pay out, and then losing $$.

Hell, we even had to do pay to play at the Hard Rock Cafe in Pittsburgh...but as long as the door covered the "fee," all was good. We didn't have to front the $$.

Some of these places will do that - pay fee is X dollars to the band, and the band keeps, say, 75% of the door. The club then takes their fee out of the first percentage, and we get to keep everything over that.

All contracts are negotiable. If they're not, they're not worth playing there.

BTW, in Pittsburgh, there's a place called the Pepsi Roadhouse which books big name acts. Local bands are the openers. They serve chicken and rib dinners before the music starts. The opening band gets food and a stipend (like $50 or $150), gets to hang out with the name act (if they want to), and gets exposure cuz everyone's coming to see the headliner.

It wastes an entire day since you have to be there in the afternoon for load in and sound check, but it's a good deal (and a good meal) for really good bands looking to get heard and network with name acts.

Z

Jeb · #18 02-02-2009, 09:22 PM

Tips? What are the bands that actually get paid to play a room in your area doing? I'd do what they do. Unless they are doing covers then I wouldn't sacrifice my sacred "artistry" for that nonsense!

Sigh.