Trouble with band group dynamics

LTDVIPER333 · #1 09-09-2009, 08:59 PM

Hi Guys
Just having minor trouble with group dynamics in my band. Basically I'm the oldest at 18 with the other band members lead guitarist 14 or 15, drummer 13 and vocals 16.

Our lead guitarist (we are yet to find a rhythm gat) composes practically all of the songs, then when I try and utilize my bass lines/songs he and our drummer either don't think they are easy enough to play along with, or add in guitar riffs that totally butcher the sound I'd envisioned. They tended to over complicate what I intend to be simplistic sounds, adding in unnecessary riffs.

We sorta play metal/ grunge/pop even reggae sounding songs.

Also all of my bass riffs are composed by our guitarist, aside from one or two. I don't mind that but would like my contributions to be a little less dominated, and bass lines coming from me rather than him.

Also I sorta rely more on natural rhythm than any particular highly technical s**t , simplistic songs
rather than s***t like Van Helen which naturally our lead guitarist is right into.

**jmattbassplaya** · #2 09-09-2009, 09:05 PM

Why not quit and play with people your own age or older?

LTDVIPER333 · #3 09-09-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Why not quit and play with people your own age or older?

No, I mean I enjoy playing with them, and would consider starting another band, but I think these dynamics would emerge regardless of age. Essentially I would like a slightly more prominent position in the band. their maturity is actually pretty good.

Classic musician ego!

Ubersheist · #4 09-09-2009, 09:31 PM

Lack of or bad communication is usually what breaks up bands. Have you let them know you're upset? It doesn't sound like it in your original post.

CincyBassMan · #5 09-09-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDVIPER333

Hi Guys
Just having minor trouble with group dynamics in my band. Basically I'm the oldest at 18 with the other band members lead guitarist 14 or 15, drummer 13 and vocals 16.

Our lead guitarist (we are yet to find a rhythm gat) composes practically all of the songs, then when I try and utilize my bass lines/songs he and our drummer either don't think they are easy enough to play along with, or add in guitar riffs that totally butcher the sound I'd envisioned. They tended to over complicate what I intend to be simplistic sounds, adding in unnecessary riffs.

We sorta play metal/ grunge/pop even reggae sounding songs.

Also all of my bass riffs are composed by our guitarist, aside from one or two. I don't mind that but would like my contributions to be a little less dominated, and bass lines coming from me rather than him.

Also I sorta rely more on natural rhythm than any particular highly technical s**t , simplistic songs
rather than s***t like Van Helen which naturally our lead guitarist is right into.

I have bolded your problem. They seem to like complicated s**t and you are into feel. You'all need to be on the same page. Maybe you can convince them that you can write your own parts and to give your ideas a chance!

Good luck!

Russ

LTDVIPER333 · #6 09-09-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Lack of or bad communication is usually what breaks up bands. Have you let them know you're upset? It doesn't sound like it in your original post.

Yea na I haven't really aired my issues, and despite their deficits they are all reasonably humble and receptive. Its mainly our guitarist that I've got this niggle with, as you may also have guest. Drummer pretty great actually.

We've also only been playing together as a four-piece for a little over a month, and the introduction of a vocalist, who might actually be 17 as opposed to 16 helps a lot with our sound and group dynamics.

LTDVIPER333 · #7 09-09-2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincyBassMan

I have bolded your problem. They seem to like complicated s**t and you are into feel. You'all need to be on the same page. Maybe you can convince them that you can write your own parts and to give your ideas a chance!

Good luck!

Russ

Yea, a mixture of both complicated and simple works well.
I don't really mind, most of our songs are reasonably simple, we either tend to go too simple or too complex (essentially our guitarist's nature) and overly distorted riffs on guitar sounds like sh***t with my songs!

My main source of conflict is with our guitarist, rest of band largely fine.

**Stumbo** · #8 09-10-2009, 01:08 AM

I suggest you make some recordings of your rehearsals with different bass lines and figure out which ones sound the best to you.

Ubersheist · #9 09-12-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDVIPER333

Yea na I haven't really aired my issues

Well, there's your big problem. If they don't know you have any issues, there's no reason for them to act any differently.

TALK TO THEM! After that, come back and ask for more advice if it doesn't work.

Moe Monsarrat · #10 09-13-2009, 06:48 PM

Bands are like being married in a way. You must be able to talk & even argue without freaking out. You must be able to forgive each other. Like brothers do. Chances are your instincts are right about the parts. Bassists usually write better bass parts than guitar players or even pianists. We're MADE differently. Get your band mates to respect you by writing parts which reflect your views & theirs. Maybe something simple in the verses & then something flashy in the chorus. Trust me, if you are writing kick ass stuff they will let you do it without question.

bassbully · #11 09-13-2009, 10:34 PM

To me its all about the age of the members. It comes down to experience...plain and simple,

LTDVIPER333 · #12 09-20-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Well, there's your big problem. If they don't know you have any issues, there's no reason for them to act any differently.

TALK TO THEM! After that, come back and ask for more advice if it doesn't work.

Yea managed to get one of my bass riffs turned into a song the other day, first time I've composed. Lead guitarist heard it and liked it, however I was strong and refused to let him put to many weird Van Hellene/mettalica style guitar solos, that he had taken out of our other songs into mine.

I also lost out to my drummer with the intro being switched from bass to drums at the beginning of the song. Was reasonably happy with the compromise though.

LTDVIPER333 · #13 09-20-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Well, there's your big problem. If they don't know you have any issues, there's no reason for them to act any differently.

TALK TO THEM! After that, come back and ask for more advice if it doesn't work.

Yea managed to get one of my bass riffs turned into a song the other day, first time I've composed. Lead guitarist heard it and liked it, however I was strong and refused to let him put to many weird Van Hellene/mettalica style guitar solos, that he had taken out of our other songs into mine.

I also lost out to my drummer with the intro being switched from bass to drums at the beginning of the song. Was reasonably happy with the compromise though.

Ubersheist · #14 09-21-2009, 09:42 AM

That's not "talking" to them. Did you tell them directly that you're upset about a few things?

Diplomacy and tact is really what is required. Try not to make it personal, and the best way to do that is not to use the word "you." Don't be condescending or accusatory. Use more words like "I think we made this song more complicated then it needs to be. How can we simplify it to make it sound better?" Stuff like that.

If you play it right (and it's very difficult to do), you can get your way while still making them think that they helped and they wanted it your way.

I agree with you. Simple is almost always better. There's a few, just a few examples, but for the most part, "less" really is "more." I remember someone on here posting something like "You'll never hear a record producer saying that the song or guitar part was underplayed and ask to make it more complicated." It's very true for good reasons.

Good luck!

Downunderwonder · #15 09-21-2009, 09:24 PM

In my experience lead guitarists can't play bass to save their life. That's ok, I can't play lead guitar either. Different wiring in the brain.

Songwriting is fun. The most fun I have ever had.

Works best for me when someone brings a groove and everyone adds their take on it. Different ideas on arrangement are tried out and hopefully something works that everyone is happy with.

Ubersheist · #16 09-24-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

In my experience lead guitarists can't play bass to save their life. That's ok, I can't play lead guitar either. Different wiring in the brain.

At the same time, alot of guitarists can write bass lines, but maybe just not play them. Also, a whole lot of bass players can write guitar lines, although they're unable to play the lines themselves....

LaklandBass · #17 09-24-2009, 01:48 AM

playing bass is alot like cycling. playing/riding with people better than you will make you better. I think you should find another set of guys to play with. Im not saying quit the band that youre in but at least explore some better options. It sounds like they dont really have your progression in mind. A band grows together, your situation sounds like a couple of people simply playing together.