trying to add a 2nd guitar player...

drudonit · #1 04-02-2009, 03:04 PM

My band's been together for like 8 months or so, we do mostly originals and started playing out very early in our existence in compared to lots of musical projects around my town. We do mainly like alternative sounding stuff, some heavier, some fun, some sad. It's a fourpiece but I want to add another guitar player, mainly for rhythm to give a more full sound because three or four of our songs desperately need it. My singer and drummer desperately agree. our guitarist though is against the idea, saying we don't need it, I think he feels because he thinks that we feel he alone isn't good enough. He takes things way too personal, but he's a keeper in the band because he writes a lot of our stuff. But this guy I want in I know from college and he's one of the downest dudes I ever met, he knows music, he's legit. I want to bring him to our next band meeting our next show isn't til the 26th.

WHAT SHOULD I DO???

drudonit · #2 04-02-2009, 03:28 PM

dam, i'm not getting an Choice #2's, that's what I'm leaning toward. So advice would be nice.

ThunderLizard · #3 04-02-2009, 05:16 PM

drud-
Your 'taking it personal' comment says a lot. Might be feeling threatened or maybe he has a concept of how the band should sound and a second guitar just doesn't fit it.
What you might want to do is invite several people to sit in from time to time just to see how it rounds things out.
Ultimately, you'll either invite the other guitar player to a rehearsal or confirm that your guitar player makes the decisions for this band.

Bass Mule · #4 04-02-2009, 05:39 PM

You "think he feels you think he isn't good enough"? Have any of you asked him why he doesn't want a 5th member? Try that first, then, once you understand his side, and if you still feel strongly about adding the 5th member, clarify your arguments for adding the 5th member and start a dialogue with the whole band.

drudonit · #5 04-02-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderLizard

drud-
Your 'taking it personal' comment says a lot. Might be feeling threatened or maybe he has a concept of how the band should sound and a second guitar just doesn't fit it.

well you gotta remember me, our singer, and our drummer all have a concept on how the band should sound too. We have to remind him a lot that there's no leader of the band

gonzilla · #6 04-03-2009, 09:11 AM

Express the benefits of becoming lead guitarist-

More solos
More fans
More facetime

Of course, though, how would you feel if the band wanted a second bassist to make the rhythm section sound more full?

Phalex · #7 04-03-2009, 09:55 AM

In past bands, I always had multiple guitar players. I had 3 of them in a very early project, and I always liked having more than just one.

About three years ago our 2nd guitar player left the band. We were in a quandary as to how best to replace him. The remaining guitar player and I both wanted this hot shot keyboard player that sang like a bird.

The drummer and the vocalist wanted a guitar player they knew. and we were deadlocked.

Well, the next gig was approaching fast, and the guitar player kept saying "We don't need another guitar. So, we tried to play the gig as a three piece with a vocalist out front.

It was amazing!! The amount of space freed up by not having another guitar was awesome. The drummer and I had tons of room to do stuff together that we never had before, and the guitar player was right! We don't have a 2nd guitar or a keyboard to this very day.

If your guitar player is really, really good, he may very well be right.

walterw · #8 04-03-2009, 03:33 PM

it's easy for all you guys to say "let's add a guitar player" because none of your parts get changed; your guitar player is the one who would have to change everything he's doing, mainly by losing most of it to make room, which is likely not going to be very much fun for him (especially if he's the one coming up with the stuff in the first place).

Mo'Phat · #9 04-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drudonit

he's one of the downest dudes I ever met, he knows music, he's legit.

Word?

Keep the peace with your wife. I mean guitarist. I think you need to convince the guitarist, and the only way to do that is to have the downest dude record some parts over your demo and you present that to your guitarist to show him that it can work and make the band better.

There's no way you can just talk him into it.

Dogbertday · #10 04-03-2009, 04:10 PM

I woulnd't add a new member for only a couple tunes... I get the feeling that you really need the extra voice durring guitar solos to fill it up. however itmight be easier to rethink how you and the drummer play durring while the guitar player wails... maybe suggest that the current player solos in a lower octave. mabe get yourself an octave pedal and a light touch of big muff for just those parts... maybe a guitar solo doesn't work there... If you want to add a new member make sure it would add to EVERY song and not just muttle up 70% of your stuff for the sake of a few choruses sounding a little more full.

**Stumbo** · #11 04-04-2009, 01:18 AM

For 3 or 4 songs, no way I would add another guitar player.

Now, if you want a rhythm guitar player in general, maybe bring the guy in and have a guitar player rehearsal to see how they can work together (if the guitar player agrees). If the guitar player controls the decision, then he's the leader of your band. If you bring the guy in anyway, your guitar player may leave. Best to discuss in detail what's going on with the guitar player.

There's lots of bands with two guitar players. They need to be willing to work together on their parts in the best interest of the band.

The other thing to think about is that if you do get another guitar player, you have another personality to deal with on all band related things. May or may not work out.

MNAirHead · #12 04-04-2009, 02:23 AM

fewer folks are easier to juggle.

Suggestion..

Buy some pro keys (trigger and modules or DX etc).. you can find a good setup for about $400

You can commonly find someone to play if you have gear.

I've yet to be in a band that couldn't help with some "pad" sounds

runmikeyrun · #13 04-04-2009, 12:02 PM

As i have learned, you can upset the apple cart in many ways with this.

We sat down as a 3 piece to talk about it. The guitarist was very against it for a long time, years in fact. He agreed twice to let someone else come and jam with us but was totally opposed to it afterward. He finally admitted after many years that he thought we thought he wasn't good enough. Which was part of it- he wasn't contributing much to the writing and was messing up live. He is a very self conscious player. But mostly we wanted to thicken up the sound and bring in some fresh ideas. It seemed like we couldn't convince him of that.

After getting another guitar player to try out, we ended up kicking guitarist #1 out, partly due to his resistance to a 2nd guitarist. Then got another guy in. Then both of them were out. Then got another guitarist, so we were a 3 piece again. Tried to add a 2nd guitarist again, only to not want to spend the very large amount of time required to bring another guitarist up to speed. Wasted about 4 months on all that to end up as a 3 piece again. No more 2nd guitarists!!

Some bands it might be worth the fight to convince the guitard and all the extra time to bring them up to speed. Our music is complex, off time, and since both guitars were playing the same material 2 really aren't necessary. I play with distortion and a good amount of mids and we think it covers the gap well.

If you really want to pursue this, i think you need to approach your guitarist under the guise that it's not personal, he is a good player, just looking for someone else to thicken the sound, something that's not possible with just one player. Do it on a trial basis- everyone has to vote the guy in, including him. If you encounter resistance, back off. Otherwise you may end up p!ssing the guy off making life difficult or him quitting.

groooooove · #14 04-04-2009, 12:16 PM

i went for choice three, although im not sure how strongly i feel about it.

why not let the guitarist you have double the tracks on the recordings, for starters.

try and convince your guitarist to let your other friend sit in just to see how it goes. if he still is against it dont bother.

i rarely see the need for a 2nd guitarist.. what i think it all boils down to is the sound that each guy has. not his playing, but his equiptment. if he has a thin sound that doesent take up much space well..you guessed it, itll sound thin.. if hes got a massive, earth rattling sound, him + bass will more than fill the mix.

drudonit · #15 04-04-2009, 01:59 PM

Well BIG NEWS, (i guess), the band talked it over. Our singer has an sg that he never plays but definitely can play hell of rhythm. So we figured we have him play and sing live for the songs we wanted second guitar in. And then on recordingings we were going to have our guitarist two several tracks per song.

by the way, whoever on here is in the band Kinetic. I listened to you guys' stuff on myspace and loved it. Awesome stuff.

**Stumbo** · #16 04-05-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drudonit

Our singer has an sg that he never plays but definitely can play hell of rhythm.

Just curious....how is it that you didn't know this before putting pressure on the guitar player to add a rhythm guitarist to the band?

Seems like you guys need to have a few more meetings to discuss your hidden talents. Does the drummer play keyboards or sax?

Great solution though. You might want to add more songs that require a rhythm player if it sounds good.

Good luck.

bearfoot · #17 04-05-2009, 08:26 AM

I have to agree with the guitarist/songwriter on this. Adding a 2nd guitar for rhythm is a PITA, and there's no reason one rhythm guitar can't sound huge. If the 2nd guitar doesn't have tasty lead abilities, it's likely going to sound like a chaotic mush.

BillyRay · #18 04-05-2009, 10:31 AM

LOL. This reminds me of a gal I used to play with who called about everyone she knew to find an harmonica player for 2 songs in a 2 hours show. When she finally called me to tell me about her misfortune, I said : "Mary, I play mouth harp, you even complimented on my playing once."

Musicians with short memories !

drudonit · #19 04-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Just curious....how is it that you didn't know this before putting pressure on the guitar player to add a rhythm guitarist to the band?

Seems like you guys need to have a few more meetings to discuss your hidden talents. Does the drummer play keyboards or sax?

Great solution though. You might want to add more songs that require a rhythm player if it sounds good.

Good luck.

Actually our drummer played trombone all throughout high shool, but we're not interested in adding horn to our sound by any means. The thing is with the two guitar player thing, there would be a lot of designated lead to our main guitarist if we had added a 5th member, but the two would also have melodic duets which was what I was thinking. But of course with our plan now we we decided to have our singer bring his guitar along but the thing is he has rarely played in the past two years, guitar is not his focus (he's like any joe schmo with a guitar sitting in come corner of his house) but we're going to work him in rather than starting on square one with a 5th member.

Dkerwood · #20 04-05-2009, 03:14 PM

So your lead guy can't play harmonies? Meh. I think you're moving in the right direction here. Let your singer strum when necessary, and let your guitarist play everything else.

"Let's get a second guitarist" means "You need help to cover the guitar sounds" to a guitarist... unless it's expressly clarified otherwise. My bassist mentioned to me that when I play guitar solos, the middle drops out. She wanted to bring in a second guitarist because of it. Thing is, 90% of my guitar parts are rhythm. That means either I have to share rhythm parts with another guy, or I lose my solos to him if he's a lead player. Not much to convince me, especially when most of the issues (with the exception of one problematic song) were solved by adjusting what the three of us were playing.

There is no need to just ADD members until you've exhausted all other possibilities, especially when adding would step on other band members' toes.