Two Drummers and Two Overly Nice Singers, Help.

BillyIVbass · #1 10-20-2011, 08:34 PM

So I'm in a cover band that plays to 100+ person nights twice a week, that meaning we aren't "pro" yet I feel we hover somewhere below pro and the level below it.

Drummer #1 played in the band before I did, good guy, adequate drummer. Problem; he drinks and argues with his wife at shows. He has left the show early, not once TWICE. Meaning we've played the 3rd set without him...TWICE.

Drummer #2 leaps and bounds better, I mean the guy could probably snore in 7/8 if needed! Outside of music we're good friends.

Overly nice singers: After the second chance of drummer number #1 leaving the show early in a drunken rage I say "Hey get drummer #2" They agree.

Drummer #2 played last week and it wasn't magical (really the guy had 72 hours to eat, sleep, work a day job and learn 40 tunes) I can point blame on myself, the guitarist and the overly nice singers also for why the show wasn't swimmingly performed.

Drummer #1 calls back and says "Hey I really want to play I will sign a contract that I will not drink before or during that shows"

Overly nice singers feel bad, want to give him a 3rd try and call me...

Realistic, somewhat negative bassist says: Are you guys nuts?

Other thoughts:
-Is it even my right to ask drummer #1 to sign a sobriety contract?

-If we boot drummer #2 a: I feel like a trader to a friend b: will get stuck playing with a sloppy drunk drummer again!

-Overly Nice Singers rightfully will view my opinions a little skewed as Drummer #2 and I are close friends.

-Would you leave if Drummer #1 came back?

-Do you give drummer #2 a heads up of a decision that isn't yours? Friendship means more than playing Bon Jovi and Kings of Leon covers!

What Would You Do?

My apologies for this loooong post, but it probably helps just writing it out.

Bassconbeatz · #2 10-20-2011, 08:39 PM

I would stick with drummer# 2. For two things, better chops and reliable. I would tell drummer #1 that he will be the back-up, when drummer #2 can't make it, that if he interested of course.

jive1 · #3 10-20-2011, 09:12 PM

The drummer left twice during a gig, and they still want to keep him? In a cover band that's supposed to keep people dancing, no drummer would kill the vibe, IMO. It's not the clarinet player leaving the middle of gig.

The question for the band is: is the guy worth losing gigs and reputation over? If you already have a guy that can step in, I would say no.

mellowinman · #4 10-20-2011, 09:17 PM

Drummer #1 would be lucky to still be alive, and I'm not exaggerating, if he had been in our band. He would not be welcome at shows, and would be encouraged to stay as far away from us as possible, in no uncertain terms.

Singers need HUGE reality check.

Drummer #2 is the guy.

And let me make this perfectly clear:

THERE IS NO DRINKING AT SHOWS, OTHER THAN A BEER OR TWO IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT, AND I AIN'T YOUR DADDY, SO I AIN'T POLICING IT!!!!

A drummer keeps time for the band. Alcohol affects time.

Our guitar player weighs 360 pounds. He is allowed ONE BEER PER SET, and the only reason we play daddy with him is because he is a kid. Our drummer does not drink at shows, and does not want to. The rest of us do not drink at shows, and do not want to.

Leaving a gig is unacceptable behavior EVER.

mellowinman · #5 10-20-2011, 09:18 PM

Oh, and shame on you, Billy for posting this thread. You had to ASK SOMEONE about this?

C'mon.

You KNEW the answer when you posted the thread.

more coffee · #6 10-20-2011, 10:23 PM

Give people a second chance, but not a third.

madmartyr17 · #7 10-20-2011, 10:32 PM

Drummer 1 is a wreck. Its obvious that his personal and marital issues are taking a toll on him, and honestly it would be better for him in the long run to leave the band so he can work on his drinking and get some marital counseling.

Both singers (Why 2?) Need to understand that just because someone says they're going to change, doesn't mean they will. This guy has walked out of TWO shows. I've been kicked out of bands for missing two PRACTICES. If you have a guy who is capable of filling in AND knows the stuff I'd be all over that.

That being said, let me say that I feel for you man. It's part of the fun of being in a band that you bond with the people you play with. It's never easy to let someone go. But some times it just needs to be done. Here's me wishing you the best.

Steve · #8 10-21-2011, 12:30 AM

leave before the end of the gig????

are you pushing my leg???

TWICE????

I don't care if he walks on water, it would have been over for me after the first one of those.

BillyIVbass · #9 10-21-2011, 01:30 AM

Thanks so far, I really do appreciate the thoughts. I am making sure I'm not out of line for wanting to say "Thanks but no thanks" to Drummer #1.

trowaclown · #10 10-21-2011, 01:48 AM

You know those expensive watches in galleries without price tags? Like what they say, if you gotta ask, then you probably can't afford it. In the same vein of things, if you gotta use a contract to maintain a drummer's sobriety, then he sure isn't worth it.

Besides, how are you going to enforce the contract? Police his alcohol levels? Punish him for breaking the contract?

BillyIVbass · #11 10-21-2011, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trowaclown

You know those expensive watches in galleries without price tags? Like what they say, if you gotta ask, then you probably can't afford it. In the same vein of things, if you gotta use a contract to maintain a drummer's sobriety, then he sure isn't worth it.

Besides, how are you going to enforce the contract? Police his alcohol levels? Punish him for breaking the contract?

You are exactly right. I don't feel it's any of my business if he's had one beer or 18 beers. I want a guy who wants to be there, can drive a band with me and who'll play 3 sets of solid tunes.

jive1 · #12 10-21-2011, 06:38 AM

Sometimes people who are too nice can wind up being the biggest jerks without ever intending to. The singers are too nice to the drummer, which makes them become a jerk to everyone else. They are jerking the venue by keeping him since they paid for a full band for X number of sets, and they didn't provide that. They are jerking around the fans who come to see the show, and get less than they anticipated. They are being jerks to you for making you have to deal with the idiot. They are being jerks to the other drummer for canning him after helping you out in a moment's notice for someone with a history of unreliability. Last, they are being jerks to themselves by letting their act deteriorate in order to be nice to the drunk.

You may want to point this out to the "too nice" singers what jerks they are being by keeping him on. The favor is only helpful to the drummer while damaging to everyone else.

Addicts can be very manipulative. That's one of the ways they can maintain their addiction for as long as they have. The contract is just another manipulative move to keep you guys sucked into his drama, IMO. Singers took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

mellowinman · #13 10-21-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jive1

Sometimes people who are too nice can wind up being the biggest jerks without ever intending to. The singers are too nice to the drummer, which makes them become a jerk to everyone else. They are jerking the venue by keeping him since they paid for a full band for X number of sets, and they didn't provide that. They are jerking around the fans who come to see the show, and get less than they anticipated. They are being jerks to you for making you have to deal with the idiot. They are being jerks to the other drummer for canning him after helping you out in a moment's notice for someone with a history of unreliability. Last, they are being jerks to themselves by letting their act deteriorate in order to be nice to the drunk.

You may want to point this out to the "too nice" singers what jerks they are being by keeping him on. The favor is only helpful to the drummer while damaging to everyone else.

Addicts can be very manipulative. That's one of the ways they can maintain their addiction for as long as they have. The contract is just another manipulative move to keep you guys sucked into his drama, IMO. Singers took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

Man, I love this post!

People who are being jerks to others by being too nice to people who are obviously undeserving of it are probably my top pet peeve in life.

It's like the guy who "nicely" slows or stops to let a car turn into traffic in front of him, not caring that he just inconvenienced 300 cars behind him, all of whom had the RIGHT OF WAY.

I hope that analogy isn't too lame.

skwee · #14 10-21-2011, 06:57 AM

Fire drummer #1. No brainer (you just don't blow the gig off early, and you don't argue with your spouse in public).

SteveHeissner · #15 10-21-2011, 07:02 AM

My vote goes for keeping Drummer #2. You don't leave before the end of the show unless you're taken away in an ambulance.

**MacBass57** · #16 10-21-2011, 07:13 AM

If you don't want to have them think you want drummer #2 because of your friendship, just show them this thread of posts. Its not your thoughts alone, but everyone here agrees with your opinion, get rid of drummer #1. Also what jive1 said about about addicts is absolutely correct.

Jarrett · #17 10-21-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassconbeatz

I would stick with drummer# 2. For two things, better chops and reliable. I would tell drummer #1 that he will be the back-up, when drummer #2 can't make it, that if he interested of course.

This guy nailed it right out of the box.

jive1 · #18 10-21-2011, 07:37 AM

I'd like to add some more about dealing with an addict.

If you fire him, you will probably get one of these excuses:
- "Sorry, I've been having problems with xxxx and that's been causing me to drink more than normal"
Sorry bud, lots of people deal with problems without being self-destructive and bringing down those around you. When you've figured out a better way to handle your problems we can talk.
- "But this band is the only reason in my life for wanting to be sober"
Sorry, bud but obviously it's not. We can't be responsible for your sobriety, you need to.
- "You guys just don't understand what it's like to xxxxx"
Sorry, I don't. But, I do know what it's like to deal with you when you're xxxxx and it's not much fun.

One of the keystones of addiction is not taking responsibility of your actions. That's what happens when you turn over control of your actions to a substance. You stop being responsible and put it on as many people as you can. IMO, you don't do an addict any favors by joining their pity party. You just keep it going.

IMO, IME, the breaking point for most addicts is when they lose their job. As long as they have their job, they are handling it, and it's not a problem. It's everyone else that has a problem with them using, not the abuser since they can still keep up their life. But once they lose their job, many realize they can't handle their life anymore. Losing your job as a drummer in a rock band due to drunkeness should be a loud and clear wake up call, if there ever was one.

Fire the drummer. It's best for you, the band, and the drummer. Maybe if he sobers up, you can rehire him or bring him on as a sub. Until then, you have to assume he's being manipulative. It's the nature of the user.

Addicts need someone to throw them a life preserver from a safe place, not someone who is gonna jump in and drown with them.

**ronaldpdbrandt** · #19 10-21-2011, 07:44 AM

Not only are addicts manipulative, but they are way too volatile to rely on for anything. I've seen it many times with ex-friends and ex-family who are alcoholics (with whom I obviously don't associate anymore).

My prediction, based upon experience, is that if you agreed to a contract with drummer #1, he would stick to it just long enough for you to think that things were really better, then suddenly another big drunken walk-out would occur, and you'd be right back where you started.

By the way, the whole time, you and everyone else in the band will be on pins and needles waiting for this to happen, so you'll never enjoy a moment of it.

Go with drummer #2. The devil you know is always the devil, you know?

fingerbun · #20 10-21-2011, 07:59 AM

Another post in favour of #2 having the gig.

Additional thoughts:

Music is competitive. In many bands, just the fact that #2 is a significantly better drummer would be enough. Band loyalty is good, but someone who isn't cutting it and is unprofessional to boot can drag the whole thing down.
It's not your decision alone. It has to be a band decision, but from what you have said it's tied at two-all right now. You guys need to talk quickly.
If the band chooses drummer #1 and you aim to do something with music, you need to think about whether you can continue. You might get known as part of a mediocre and unreliable band. It can be hard to live that down.
Don't lie to your friend. If you can, sort things quickly, and if he asks, tell him the band is discussing things.

Good luck.