Two Guitarists, one must go!!

Kimpini · #1 07-11-2008, 02:36 PM

So I am playing in a rock band with me, a drummer, two guitarists and a singer. But the guitarists styles conflict with each other. I also feel that when we play songs the play over each other. The drummer and I both agree that one must go, but we like them both alot. Everyone in the band is a close friend of mine so it will suck to kick either of them out but it must be done. Read everything before voting please!

Guitarist #1
He is the lead guitarist in the band. He is ALOT more technically talented than #2. He can solo alot better than him and picks up on stuff faster. He and the singer are really close friends so I am afraid that if we kick him out, the singer will leave. BUT, whenever he is trying to teach the other guitarist a line, he stands far away from him says the chord names and if he doesn't get it the first time he just says, "forget it." He can be kind of controlling during practices too. For example our drummer said that he wanted to play Weezer because, but before he finished his sentence, #1 said NO. It seems like he thinks that it his his project and not our Band. He acts like because he is the best in the band it is his.

Guitarist #2
I have alot less bad things to say about him, but also alot less good things. If the other guitarist is a 10 then he is like a 6. He cant solo which is frustrating. It also takes him a while to get whatever riff he is working on worked out. He is not as creative when he is coming up with his own material. So we will run into trouble when we are writing our own stuff. BUT, he has a better sense of rhythm than the othe guitarist. And he has good dynamics, and dynamics are non existent on the other guitarist. I think, just think, that he and I are more on the same page it terms of where we want to go with the band as far as music goes. He also has a better attitude, but he isn't nearly as good which worrys me.

Thank you for reading the whole thing! Feedback is greatly appreciated. Vote for the one you think should go!

MHensleyJr · #2 07-11-2008, 02:41 PM

Guy #1 sounds like a POS. Kick him to the curb.

kesslari · #3 07-11-2008, 02:43 PM

There are tons of talented guitarists out there.
There are NOT tons of people who can work well with others and play with dynamics.
Kick the ego-with-feet.

69nites · #4 07-11-2008, 02:47 PM

I'd talk to them...

thesteve · #5 07-11-2008, 02:55 PM

Hmm...that's tough...

honestly #2 sounds like a better option in the long run. Creativity and skill will probably increase over time, as will #1's douchery. I would suck to give #1 the boot and lose your singer in the process though...

have any of you called him out when he's being controlling and reminded him that it's not his band, it's everyone's?

Kimpini · #6 07-11-2008, 03:04 PM

yes I have

IanStephenson · #7 07-11-2008, 03:08 PM

you say #2 isn't so good, but then say his timing is tighter, and his dynamics are better. Are you really sure #1 is that much better or is he just louder and flashier?

#2 takes longer to work stuff out, but if he puts the homework in then thats not a problem. If he doesn't want to write, then that's not a problem if everyone else in the band can bring in stuff for him to play. Sounds like it's really just his lack of solo'ing thats a problem - maybe he can work on it, and maybe you can just have less solos...

[oops just realise I voted to KEEP 2, but accidently voted to kick him out!]

paganjack · #8 07-11-2008, 03:21 PM

odds are, if things keep up, g#1 will probably explode and cause all sorts of other problems down the line. he'll probably either leave anyway, or kick everyone who disagrees with him out. g#2 sounds much more workable. as people mentioned, skill will increase over time and you can give guitar homework, but its hard to make someone practice being less of a jerk.
if you looked around, you could maybe find another guitar player that could fill in some gaps in g#2 and is also cool to work with.

i_got_a_mohawk · #9 07-11-2008, 04:40 PM

#2 sounds like he has the basics down better than #1

You can't beat the basics, and he also seems like a nicer guy.

Nick Kay · #10 07-12-2008, 12:49 AM

Odd that #2 is leading the thread, but #1 is leading the polls.

That being said, I'd go with #2. Technical skill grows over time, and so do ego issues. As long as #2 is practicing properly (ie: playing riffs that you know by heart does not constitute practice), then he's a keeper.

IanStephenson · #11 07-12-2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Kay

Odd that #2 is leading the thread, but #1 is leading the polls.

Because the poll is "who will go", while the thread is "who will stay". I suspect most of the votes to kick out #2 (at least mine and yours!) are mistakes.

Ian

GabeN · #12 07-12-2008, 01:21 AM

Here's my take:

It seems like you guys need to sit down and have a heart to heart. The biggest problem in a lot of bands is a lack of communication. You guys should sit down and hash out your differences. Maybe one or both the guitarists have problems with YOU and have the same gripes about you our the drummer that you have about them. You say that the guitarist #1 thinks it's his band but with you talking about who to kick out of the band it seems like you feel it's YOUR band.

My point is you guys as a group of musicians need to get together and communicate your musical needs to each other.

René_Julien · #13 07-12-2008, 02:12 AM

It's not about who the best musician is, but who is most fun playing with.

I'd say #1 has to go.

I had the sorta same experience several years ago.
A lead guitar player (good friend though) that was very good,
except he could catch on quickly.
The rythm guitar player didn't any solos or lead (I think that he could have).

Well that rythm guitar player I enjoyed most playing with.
At rehearsal we to would be the one making the songs.
We'd start to jam, one of us would improvise, we had very
good sense of time, so the drummer catched up with us.
But the lead guitar part was always figured out way later.

walknbluez · #14 07-12-2008, 05:45 PM

Boot guitard #1 and keep #2, then you could find yourself another with a good attitude who plays lead really well.

BassMonstrum · #15 07-12-2008, 06:02 PM

I have worked with people like #1 before and after a while the problems will just grow! Get rid of him before he tears the band apart.

But explain the situation to your singer first and ask him directly if he will leave if you boot #1. Tell him that you would like him to stay, but that the guitarist is not right for the band. Surely, he must have picked up on the signs as well.

#2's skills will eventually grow, and so will his creativity once he feels more confident (#1 is probably a reason why his creativity has staggered, bossy personalities have a tendency to intimidate other members, trust me on that). He seems to have the basics down, as others here have replied and besides, this gives you more room to write material

Besides, it's much easier to recruit another guitarist when the #2 is a nice guy.

troyus · #16 07-12-2008, 11:48 PM

In my experience, I think you need both guys...

Don't expect a busy bassist and a good lead player to work that well together... They're both going to want to 'solo' so it can be tricky... That's what I have noticed.

I would try and navigate through it all, and keep the lineup.

Good lineups have weird people in them. The #1 guy sounds weird.

thesteve · #17 07-13-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyus

Good lineups have weird people in them. The #1 guy sounds weird.

I don't think "douche" is a good kind of weird when it comes to keeping the band happy.

Beej · #18 07-13-2008, 12:39 AM

I think you guys need a band meeting and I also think you should write down all of your points so you can refer to them in said meeting. Communication is key, you need to set out some ground rules, find out where each person sees the band right now, in the near future, a year from now and five years down the road. If several of you are on the same page and one or two aren't, then they have a decision to make.

I'm biased though, because I'm a psychotherapist and I can't stand poor boundaries and miscommunications. All groups, whether they are friends or family, therapy groups, or your band, will go through a well-established and well-researched pattern that can basically be summed up as the Tuckman stages for group process: Forming, storming, norming and performing.

Forming is the beginning; the honeymoon stage where everyone is nicey nicey.
Storming is when all hell breaks loose and everyone fights about the previous process.
Norming is where you figure out your norms and decide on the rules and goals.
Performing is when everyone settles in and starts working together for a common goal.

Each stage may vary in length, but they inevitably all occur at some point...

Valerus · #19 07-13-2008, 12:44 AM

Adios numero uno

David1234 · #20 07-13-2008, 12:56 AM

Of all the habits a band does not want to get into, the #1 habit to avoid is kicking people out.

Have a frank discussion. Keep it polite, but make sure you say everything you need to say, including "while it's as it stands, the band isn't really working for me, yet I want it to work".

If any of you can learn anything from each other, then learn it and all of you might grow. That'll get you a good band. If you get in the habit of starting from scratch all the time instead of growing all the time, you'll be left behind by those bands who bother to talk to each other and work together.