Unpaid Intern Musicians?!?

[Nomadskills]

Seems like a slippery slope to me.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

This sounds like another one of those "it'll be great exposure for you" sort of deals where it looks a lot better than is is.

I see those offers here in Socal. It's terrible, I played two gigs like that as a favor to a friend, we never got one single call for any work.

[HolmeBass]

Originally Posted by henry2513

How's the musicians union treat this? Is there a journeyman designation for musicians or anything like that?

Doesn't matter, the idea that apprentices work for free is simply incorrect.

[lowfreq33]

I think I know who it is...

[handofseven]

Originally Posted by henry2513

How's the musicians union treat this? Is there a journeyman designation for musicians or anything like that?

It's an interesting question. I'm not a professional musician. I work in the steel industry. In my industry, you need to be qualified, or working under someone who is qualified. Either way, you will be getting paid for the work you do.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

Doesn't matter, the idea that apprentices work for free is simply incorrect.

I don't know, is it incorrect?

When I was a young kid I offered to help around my dads friends mechanic shop for a summer to learn some trade skills.

My brother in law started the same way when he wanted to become a plumber.

This still happens. I did it when I was young and no one got arrested. I can't imagine that i was the exception to the rule.

But that's besides the point but I think that's the same sentiment people have about musicians. "You have to pay your dues".

[Roy Vogt]

Just talked to the Local. The label is really above board with their conduct. This may be a scammer with no real association- a bottom feeder, in other words. Not the first time I've seen that in Nashville and not the last.
Stay tuned.....

[sludgelord3000]

There's a big difference between handing your uncle a wrench while he talks you through changing spark plugs and doing an engine rebuild on your own.

"Paying your dues" in music is something different. It means doing crappy low pay gigs in stabby dive bars. It means going to informal jam sessions and open mics. It means going to the clubs even when you're not playing, to meet other musicians, network, and learn a few things from watching others.

It is not analogous with apprenticing for a trade, or interning at an office. If you're doing the same exact job for free that a pro would do for pay, you're not "paying dues." All you're doing is taking money out of the pro's pocket.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by sludgelord3000

There's a big difference between handing your uncle a wrench while he talks you through changing spark plugs and doing an engine rebuild on your own.

"Paying your dues" in music is something different. It means doing crappy low pay gigs in stabby dive bars. It means going to informal jam sessions and open mics. It means going to the clubs even when you're not playing, to meet other musicians, network, and learn a few things from watching others.

It is not analogous with apprenticing for a trade, or interning at an office. If you're doing the same exact job for free that a pro would do for pay, you're not "paying dues." All you're doing is taking money out of the pro's pocket.

I agree with you but unfortunately I think we're in the minority - not here on talkbass but in society in general.

[deepBassie]

Originally Posted by henry2513

How is it different than a kid doing an internship at a business?

I have worked for engineering related businesses over the last 20 years or so. Every intern that I've worked with has received a paycheck. They don't make what the "professionals" do, but they still get a respectable sum.

So should these kids.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Just talked to the Local. The label is really above board with their conduct. This may be a scammer with no real association- a bottom feeder, in other words. Not the first time I've seen that in Nashville and not the last.
Stay tuned.....

So it isn't an artist who's actually signed with BM?

[Freddels]

I agree with Roy on this. It's a dangerous precedent.

Also, the economy isn't poor. It's just being strangled by the corporations and top money holders. Corporations are making record profits but they're just not letting it trickle down to the working stiffs.

[Factor88]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

This is essentially a labor position, it would be like asking your roofer to work for free in order to gain experience.

The day kids in study halls start daydreaming about making it big in the roofing industry, that analogy will make perfect sense.............

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

This is like Lucasfilms/Disney trying to staff a picture shoot with grips/cameramen/best boys, etc. from the UCLA Film School Interns.

Funny you mention Disney....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8464524/...nts-criticism/

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

So it isn't an artist who's actually signed with BM?

Possibly. I will know soon. Could have been a con, using the buzzword of the BM monicer to get people interested.
"We're this close to a deal", etc. As I've said I've seen that before. Personally I will be relieved if that's the case.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by Freddels

I agree with Roy on this. It's a dangerous precedent.

Also, the economy isn't poor. It's just being strangled by the corporations and top money holders. Corporations are making record profits but they're just not letting it trickle down to the working stiffs.

Uh, the economy is very poor. It's being propped up by the FED. If none of it as you say is being allowed to "trickle down" to working stiffs, it's effectively poor for most people right?

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Freddels

Also, the economy isn't poor. It's just being strangled by the corporations and top money holders. Corporations are making record profits but they're just not letting it trickle down to the working stiffs.

At the risk of derailing a thread posted by a top respected bassist and (by all accounts) really nice guy, I will simply leave it at this notion is ridiculous. Pure nonsense.

[Jeremy Darrow]

Originally Posted by Factor88

The day kids in study halls start daydreaming about making it big in the roofing industry, that analogy will make perfect sense.............

Music may seem really glamourous if you don't do it for a living. It can be, but mostly it's A JOB. I think that you're confusing wanting to become a big star with wanting to make a living doing what you love. Being a working musician has much more in common with being a roofer than it does with being a star.

[HYBRID APERION]

Yes I agree with Roy as well.A similar thing like this happened to me in So.Cal.I thought it was a part of the"dues" process.What they didnt know was after being ripped off and consulted by an attorney I first turned the matter over to the State Labor Commissioner and actually getting the money I should have been paid(that took 18 months)I came to realize the only reason it happened to me is because I let it

[bassfran]

Subbed.
Thanks for the heads-up Roy. A possible slippery slope indeed.