Unpaid Intern Musicians?!? - Page 3

BobaFret · #41 11-30-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

Music may seem really glamourous if you don't do it for a living. It can be, but mostly it's A JOB. I think that you're confusing wanting to become a big star with wanting to make a living doing what you love. Being a working musician has much more in common with being a roofer than it does with being a star.

This is exactly what my old teacher told me. His story was actually kind of sad considering how talented he is. He does fine, but if you can be that good and struggle, what would a guy like me do?

Roy Vogt · #42 11-30-2012, 02:50 PM

Update:
Heard from my student. A legit Big Machine Artist. Show pay but free rehearsals and the band members double as interns, putting up posters, Street Team stuff, maybe some office work. Not as nasty as it could be but sort of a grey area.
So,it has sort of a yuck factor but is not beyond the pale. BTW I gave my student typical road scales in case he gets the gig. We'll see....

iiipopes · #43 11-30-2012, 02:56 PM

Big name or no, after he has played a gig and attended rehearsals where everyone else gets paid, then hire a labor lawyer, contact the musicians' union and the state department of labor and tell them what is going on. That will wake them up.

Roy Vogt · #44 11-30-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiipopes

After he has played a gig and attended rehearsals where everyone else gets paid, then hire a labor lawyer, contact the musicians' union and the state department of labor and explain what is going on. That will wake them up.

Since this is a legit Artist I am forwarding all of this to the Nashville Musicians Association for a reading on this. Relieved my student was somewhat misinformed, but still there's grey areas as I said. It's not his record deal, after all.

Jeremy Darrow · #45 11-30-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Update:
Heard from my student. A legit Big Machine Artist. Show pay but free rehearsals and the band members double as interns, putting up posters, Street Team stuff, maybe some office work. Not as nasty as it could be but sort of a grey area.
So,it has sort of a yuck factor but is not beyond the pale. BTW I gave my student typical road scales in case he gets the gig. We'll see....

Roy, is the office/street team work mandatory?

Roy Vogt · #46 11-30-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

Roy, is the office/street team work mandatory?

Unfortunately that's the impression he got. Hence, the Yuck factor.

Jeremy Darrow · #47 11-30-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Unfortunately that's the impression he got. Hence, the Yuck factor.

Yuck is right.

Jhengsman · #48 11-30-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry2513

How is it different than a kid doing an internship at a business?

Unions, if they exist, at those businesses don't allow unpaid volunteers to do the work of their craft employees. There is a musician's union.

Andyman001 · #49 11-30-2012, 05:03 PM

in the past, if I were doing work in a union shop, they would have a worker "follow" me around as I worked so as to not take a represented workers pay.

Wally Malone · #50 11-30-2012, 11:35 PM

Right on Roy for bringing attention to this. I think the young lady that got all the FB attention (I think her first name was Amanda) for taking advantage of musicians seems to have turned this around and is now paying the musicians. Maybe starting a social media campaign on this latest uncovering could produce the same results.

Wally

jmattbassplaya · #51 12-01-2012, 02:29 AM

Do we know what band it is? Is it a male singer? My buddy Chris is drumming for one of these newer bands, and I wonder if it's his.

Roy Vogt · #52 12-01-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Do we know what band it is? Is it a male singer? My buddy Chris is drumming for one of these newer bands, and I wonder if it's his.

It's a female artist. I am taking the info to the Nashville Musicians Association first. Dave Pomeroy, the Local's President, is very good about finding teachable moments while resolving these kind of issues so I will try that first and will respect everyone's privacy for the moment. My student will hear whether he got the gig offered to him this weekend and will let me know whether he's even being offered a fair wage for the dates before all the freebies. Ironically, there are literally hundreds of Music Business Majors from Belmont and MTSU who would give them what they need at little or no cost as part of coursework in Music Business Internship. Everyone could get exactly what they need in an ethical way. They probably are unaware of this ( I hope).

guy n. cognito · #53 12-01-2012, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

I agree with Roy on this. It's a dangerous precedent.

Also, the economy isn't poor. It's just being strangled by the corporations and top money holders. Corporations are making record profits but they're just not letting it trickle down to the working stiffs.

Sigh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by two fingers

At the risk of derailing a thread posted by a top respected bassist and (by all accounts) really nice guy, I will simply leave it at this notion is ridiculous. Pure nonsense.

Correct

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

It's a female artist. I am taking the info to the Nashville Musicians Association first. Dave Pomeroy, the Local's President, is very good about finding teachable moments while resolving these kind of issues so I will try that first and will respect everyone's privacy for the moment. My student will hear whether he got the gig offered to him this weekend and will let me know whether he's even being offered a fair wage for the dates before all the freebies. Ironically, there are literally hundreds of Music Business Majors from Belmont and MTSU who would give them what they need at little or no cost as part of coursework in Music Business Internship. Everyone could get exactly what they need in an ethical way. They probably are unaware of this ( I hope).

Interesting. I'll be following your progress. Unfortunately, the rise is bands and labels looking for free work is only matched by musicians willing to work for free around here.

jmattbassplaya · #54 12-01-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

It's a female artist. I am taking the info to the Nashville Musicians Association first. Dave Pomeroy, the Local's President, is very good about finding teachable moments while resolving these kind of issues so I will try that first and will respect everyone's privacy for the moment. My student will hear whether he got the gig offered to him this weekend and will let me know whether he's even being offered a fair wage for the dates before all the freebies. Ironically, there are literally hundreds of Music Business Majors from Belmont and MTSU who would give them what they need at little or no cost as part of coursework in Music Business Internship. Everyone could get exactly what they need in an ethical way. They probably are unaware of this ( I hope).

Thanks, Roy. Keep us posted any way that you can.

Wally Malone · #55 12-01-2012, 01:34 PM

It's good to get Dave involved at Local 257. He and I have been friends for years and met due our memberships and involvement with the AFM. I was president of Local 153 in San Jose for many years before working directly for the AFM. I get to see Dave at a few meetings each year and yes, talking bass always comes into our discussions.

Wally

**Ric5** · #56 12-01-2012, 01:38 PM

Unpaid Intern Musicians?!?

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Isn't that what 90% of all original bands are?

HolmeBass · #57 12-01-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

I agree with Roy on this. It's a dangerous precedent.

Also, the economy isn't poor. It's just being strangled by the corporations and top money holders. Corporations are making record profits but they're just not letting it trickle down to the working stiffs.

I'm glad this might not be as bad as it first sounded, Roy. But I need to correct two answers/quotes of Freddels' post that dismissed it sumarily, and incorrectly.

2012 was a year of record business profits, and record low wages.
http://www.businessinsider.com/corpo...ime-low-2012-6

The stock market in 2012 has consistently been within 10% of the all-time high for the stock market.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1396201.html

http://www.stockpickssystem.com/hist...ate-of-return/

What Freddels said was right on the money. You guys who think it was bunk need to WAKE UP and get informed IMHO.

LiquidMidnight · #58 12-01-2012, 02:08 PM

Wow. Everytime I think that the music biz can't become more expoitive and full of shysters, I learn something that proves me wrong.

LiquidMidnight · #59 12-01-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

. Being a working musician has much more in common with being a roofer than it does with being a star.

QFT

Jhengsman · #60 12-01-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

Wow. Everytime I think that the music biz can't become more expoitive and full of shysters, I learn something that proves me wrong.

The way I understand the OP, this wasn't the Nashville industry but rather the parent/manager who lives off of the labor of their child, who they hope is the next Taylor Swift, trying to think outside of the box to get some more money out of their goose. When the union and large record label heard they got involved the parent/manager backed off