Unsure guitarist

[Leftybass12]

So my buddy and I have just formed a band and it seems to be going well right now. He and I are essentially the ones in charge and we've been writing original music lately. However, when we are done writing a passage in a song I ask him, "What do you think would go next?" He's gotten better at this, but he use to say a lot "I don't know" and scratch his head. He's a pretty good guitarist and knows his theory pretty well too, but he's too damn critical of himself. Yeah, I know we are all our worst critics and such, but it's now gotten to hte point that if he says "I don't know" more than 5 times in a session I'll get up and walk away for around 10-15 minutes. I try to help him with ideas, but I'm coming from a bassists point a view most of time, although I do have to essentially write out the guitar parts. What can I do to help the guitarist? I don't want to quit 'cause we've gotten a lot of good ideas and I don't want to put that all to waste. BTW, our style is hard rock, progressive rock/metal, if that helps.

[Rob Lewis]

Odd personality for a guitarist in a hard rock/metal band...

[randyripoff]

Be patient. Some people can come up with stuff really quickly, others need a little more time. Perhaps you can try suggesting an approach to him, and see how he takes to it. You might set off a lightbulb in his head.

[Beej]

Being a good player and being a good songwriter are two completely separate things in my experience. They might occur together in a person, but just as often, they don't. Maybe you guys need to add someone with strong songwriting chops...

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Leftybass12

.... when we are done writing a passage in a song I ask him, "What do you think would go next?" He's gotten better at this, but he use to say a lot "I don't know" and scratch his head.

Creating music is not a race....it's art. It takes the time it takes.

Just curious how you concluded that original music should just flow like water?

You might ask him to change his "I don't know" statement to "I need to think about it". Maybe you'll feel better.

Or maybe you could learn to play guitar chords and be the creator.

[Munjibunga]

How would you answer if he asked you, "What do you think would go next?" I mean, aren't you just passing it off on him? Why don't you say, "I think this should go next"?

[Manndreas]

Originally Posted by Beej

Being a good player and being a good songwriter are two completely separate things in my experience. They might occur together in a person, but just as often, they don't.

Big +1.

For example, I suck at lyrics, and I've come to peace with knowing I'll never be a great poet. In the bands I've played in over the years, I have however discovered that I've been a stronger "producer/arranger" than some of my bandmates. This worked really good in a band I played in where we had two really creative guitarists that would show up with new riffs at every other practice.

Often I'd say something like "Hey I have an _idea_ for a song. We'll start out with something like this" *hums a melody* and and try to descibe the "layout" and feel of the song. And they would try to find the right riffs. We wrote a lot of songs that way.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by Leftybass12

So my buddy and I have just formed a band and it seems to be going well right now. He and I are essentially the ones in charge and we've been writing original music lately. However, when we are done writing a passage in a song I ask him, "What do you think would go next?" He's gotten better at this, but he use to say a lot "I don't know" and scratch his head. He's a pretty good guitarist and knows his theory pretty well too, but he's too damn critical of himself. Yeah, I know we are all our worst critics and such, but it's now gotten to hte point that if he says "I don't know" more than 5 times in a session I'll get up and walk away for around 10-15 minutes. I try to help him with ideas, but I'm coming from a bassists point a view most of time, although I do have to essentially write out the guitar parts. What can I do to help the guitarist? I don't want to quit 'cause we've gotten a lot of good ideas and I don't want to put that all to waste. BTW, our style is hard rock, progressive rock/metal, if that helps.

Here's how you should help your guitarist:

When you both are writing a passage, rather than stop to ask the guitarist 'what should go next?' just keep playing. Feel around for a change that sounds/feels appropriate. Even if the guitarist stops, find a transition or change of passage that sounds good to you on your bass. If he's a good guitarist then he shouldnt have a problem finding a part to compliment what youre playing, then you'll have your change. Remember that a great understanding of theory does not (necessarily) a good songwriter make. However, his theory skills could come into play when youre having trouble getting the new part just right.

[MrTAteMyBalls]

yeah, not everyone is a great songwriter and a lot of people do it slowly. what you need is someone who is intensly creative and can come up with a bunch of riffs/parts real quick on the spot....then you can pick and choose what works and tweak it to fit.

[Leftybass12]

Thank you very much for all the advice everyone. Some of it has helped, but it's a work in progress. Also, when I am asked "what do you think goes next?" usually I will noodle around and get a feel for what I want. I've usually know exactly what I doing, however he usually will say "that's cool, but I don't know what I should do." It's frustrating, but things are beginning to turn around. Also, another thing I've been trying hard to really get him to practice theory on the guitar and technique. I like to use bands like Rush, Dream Theater, Pink Floyd, and other bands of that genre to say that if we work hard enough we can get to that level. However, I want to say he's lazy about it and just settles for what he has and nothing else. Again, thank you all very much for the advice everyone.