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07-14-2008, 08:14 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ohio | |  Updated band rant
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I'm sure quite a few of you remember my last thread talking about my old band and the one guitarist from that band, well he still hasn't gave me guitar back and nobody can find him. Anyway, last night I got a call from my singer saying that a band signed to an indie lable just released a new album with our old drummer in the band and roughly 85% of the music on the entire album is our old bands, and 3 other bands from the area; the other 15% is a cover song and a couple of their own songs. Nobody had our permission to use the music, we have 3 songs on cd and every single song we had written is on video of us performing it live. I've been trying to find an attorney in the area that deals with entertainment issues but i'm unable to find one. Just out of curiosity, do you guys/gals think we have a good shot at winning a lawsuit should we persue that route? Or should we just gang up and kick his a$$? |
07-14-2008, 12:00 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario | | | If you don't have your songs copyrighted, you've got nothing to go on. Sorry, mate. |
07-14-2008, 12:04 PM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: chicago, IL. | | | I'd gather all the bands they ripped off then go to there CD release party and every show they have and boo them off stage. |
07-14-2008, 12:37 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Kay  If you don't have your songs copyrighted, you've got nothing to go on. Sorry, mate. | +1, unless you can produce original copyrights, you have no case whatsoever. A singer that my old band auditioned ripped off one of our tunes, but since we did not have any copyright on it there was nothing we could do at the time (the song was garbage anyway, haha) |
07-14-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ric1312 I'd gather all the bands they ripped off then go to there CD release party and every show they have and boo them off stage. | souds like what they deserve...  |
07-14-2008, 01:37 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cottage Grove, St. Paul suburb | | | "...signed to an indie label." Trust me, there's no money there. |
07-14-2008, 01:52 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Winston Salem, NC | | | Well, if you have a copy of the tune or lyrics on a computer, then the file is dated. If this date precedes their recording, then you have an infringement case.
Rather than stop them from using it (cease and desist- but if you want to do this a lawyer can write a C&D letter for you), you should send a notice of ownership to the band and the label, and make an offer to, instead of a lawsuit or C&D, give you credit and royalties (if any ever happen). Also credit for any playing you did. And the CD artwork gets changed to reflect this on the next pressing run. This basically gets you the credits and doesn't cost them any money to speak of, and hopefully, there will be no further animosity. |
07-14-2008, 02:25 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ypsilanti, MI 48197 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Kay If you don't have your songs copyrighted, you've got nothing to go on. Sorry, mate. | If you wrote down the songs, they were copyrighted the minute you did so.
Just as this post is... and anything else you write. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork
"When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device."
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07-14-2008, 02:35 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Newark, NJ | | If you are really interested in finding a lawyer... http://www.lawyers.com/
just search one up. Dunno that you have much of a case without the copyright, and it will probably cost you more to sue then any of it is worth. |
07-14-2008, 02:45 PM
| | Reserved for future witty use... | | | | | You want a lawyer well versed in Copyright Law, not necessarily entertainment. If you don't have a copyright don't panic, but you MUST have a way to prove the material is yours as well as when it was created.
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07-14-2008, 03:02 PM
| | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars | | Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Hartford, CT | | Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonica78 +1, unless you can produce original copyrights, you have no case whatsoever. A singer that my old band auditioned ripped off one of our tunes, but since we did not have any copyright on it there was nothing we could do at the time (the song was garbage anyway, haha) | Sorry, but that's wrong. An original composition has a copyright the minute it is recorded. "Recorded" btw is not limited to an audio recording, but can be recorded on paper as well. If you've got audio, video or written charts you've got a copyright that's likely enforceable.
If they have "released" these songs and you can indeed prove you are the author or co-author (and it sounds like you can), and you did not expressly give them permission to release the recordings as a first release(composers always have the right of first release), then they have a problem and you've got a case and can seek compensation. However, if you did previously release the CDs with the original recordings on them (i.e. made copies and distributed them to the public), then they have the right to release their own recordings of those tunes any time they wish, HOWEVER they must credit the author(s) properly AND pay you a statutory rate for a mechanical license on each and every unit they sell. At the very least, assuming the drummer was a co-author of the compositions, he owes you both the credit and your share of the publishing, which needs to be paid to the authors by the record company.
However, unless these tunes sell big numbers, you're very likely to spend more money trying to recover what you're owed on attorney's fees.
There's a great book by Scott Passman called "Everything You Wanted To Know About The Music Business". It's a must-read for anyone who wants to know what they already think they know about songwriting, royalties and record companies and are most likely completely wrong about.
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07-14-2008, 03:58 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario | | Quote:
Originally Posted by aborgman If you wrote down the songs, they were copyrighted the minute you did so.
Just as this post is... and anything else you write. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork
"When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device." | I'm assuming that this other band has already registered the CD they recorded with the copyright office - it's the first thing I do when I record something. OP will need tangible, dated proof that he wrote the songs in question if he wants his case to hold up. Of course, the drummer probably doesn't know if the OP has said proof or not, so he could get a lawyer to drop a C&D on them and they'd get scared and pull the CD. |
07-14-2008, 04:03 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SF Bay Area North CA | | | You could always contact the indie label, all three bands together, also include tangible proof that the songs are yours and just mention possible legal action. That usually makes the label forced to talk to that band about what really happened and the outcome might not be pretty. |
07-14-2008, 04:05 PM
|  | Life is Tough. Laugh more. Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island, USA | | | PM'ed you the name of a guy you could talk to.
Entertainment Lawyer and guitar player. Boston.
Good luck.
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07-14-2008, 04:16 PM
| | Reserved for future witty use... | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Garfinkel Sorry, but that's wrong. An original composition has a copyright the minute it is recorded. "Recorded" btw is not limited to an audio recording, but can be recorded on paper as well. If you've got audio, video or written charts you've got a copyright that's likely enforceable. | +1 http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf
Go to the section marked Who can claim copyright? Copyright is granted to the owner the moment a work is created. People file for copyrights with the copyright office because it gives the owner a way to provide irrefutable proof of copyright ownership in the event of a case of infringement.
Although you don't have a government copyright, you still have a copyright to the songs. You just need a way to prove you and your band wrote and created the songs before they released them.
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07-14-2008, 06:55 PM
|  | Registered User
Maker of HPF-Pre upright bass preamp | | Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Madison WI | | | One thought (and of course I am not a copyright lawyer) is that an "indie label" is anybody with a computer. A lot depends on how substantial the label actually is. Their release may be irrelevant, and your best course of action might be simply to continue using your own songs yourself as you see fit. If anybody asks, just tell them that you own the material. You could put the live video clips on YouTube.
In terms of suing someone, they could always turn around and say: "We all composed those tunes together," or else, "we wrote those tunes first, but did not keep the original files." At that point your implicit copyright is probably worth the paper it is written on.
The time and aggravation that you continue to spend on the band that blew up, you could spend writing 3 more tunes that are even better.
Last edited by fdeck : 07-14-2008 at 06:58 PM.
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07-15-2008, 05:07 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Charlottesville, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Garfinkel However, unless these tunes sell big numbers, you're very likely to spend more money trying to recover what you're owed on attorney's fees. | +1000. End of story. |
07-15-2008, 12:03 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ohio | | | The band is signed to Victory Records and from what I've heard they've been dropped from Victory as well. Don't know if it's true or not that they've been dropped, but thanks everyone for the advice. I asked one of my professors (i'm a paralegal major trying to get into law school) if she knew of any attorney's that I could talk to that had experience with this kind of stuff and she didn't. |
07-15-2008, 12:06 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Garfinkel Sorry, but that's wrong. An original composition has a copyright the minute it is recorded. "Recorded" btw is not limited to an audio recording, but can be recorded on paper as well. If you've got audio, video or written charts you've got a copyright that's likely enforceable.
If they have "released" these songs and you can indeed prove you are the author or co-author (and it sounds like you can), and you did not expressly give them permission to release the recordings as a first release(composers always have the right of first release), then they have a problem and you've got a case and can seek compensation. However, if you did previously release the CDs with the original recordings on them (i.e. made copies and distributed them to the public), then they have the right to release their own recordings of those tunes any time they wish, HOWEVER they must credit the author(s) properly AND pay you a statutory rate for a mechanical license on each and every unit they sell. At the very least, assuming the drummer was a co-author of the compositions, he owes you both the credit and your share of the publishing, which needs to be paid to the authors by the record company.
However, unless these tunes sell big numbers, you're very likely to spend more money trying to recover what you're owed on attorney's fees.
There's a great book by Scott Passman called "Everything You Wanted To Know About The Music Business". It's a must-read for anyone who wants to know what they already think they know about songwriting, royalties and record companies and are most likely completely wrong about. | I stand corrected....and I have a book that I now need to get!!! |
07-15-2008, 01:42 PM
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Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars | | Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Hartford, CT | | Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonica78 I stand corrected....and I have a book that I now need to get!!! | It's a great book and a very funny read. I read it years ago and I know it's been updated to reflect the current statutory rates, etc.
Here's an amazon.com link: http://www.amazon.com/Need-Know-Abou...6150688&sr=8-1
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