Venting...It is so hard to find reliable musicians

crow01 · #1 12-02-2008, 06:18 PM

Why is it so hard to find reliable people. I posted an ad, from which a lot of people replied, drummers, guitars and voice. They all said yes, we will go, it's cool, etc.

Today I had to cancel a rehearsal, cause at the last minute suddenly nobody could come.

The also typical is the one that replies and it's so excited, says yes yes, and then goes MIA. Never replies back.

I think the motivation is the same when you try to go to the gym.
Level1: Today I am going, yes it's for sure I'm going
Level2: Mmm but it's cold, and you try to find all kind of excuses.
Level3: You don't go.

I think is the same here, people have motivation but it wears off. Either they are shy, lazy, rookies, or just busy.

Whatsup!

LuckyCondlins · #2 12-02-2008, 08:16 PM

hmmm i dunnho!

maybe something actually happened, and the others just said screw it!

Fetusyolk · #3 12-02-2008, 08:20 PM

i don't know, when people reply to ads it generally means they are pretty interested or they wouldn't be taking the time out to reply to your ad.

you may be right, but give it one more shot with these doods.

About the unreliable people thing, in general, people are like sheep; they have small heads and a thick coat of wool

shirky · #4 12-02-2008, 08:24 PM

Easy = Hitting the respond button on a craigslist ad.
Difficult = Learning songs, packing up gear, rehearsing.

I think our society in general likes to hit that "easy" button for all manner of things.

I would, however, urge you to stay the course. Maybe hit some open mics...

Cheers,
Shirky

debassr · #5 12-02-2008, 08:31 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of Musicians.

Shovelbone · #6 12-02-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirky

Easy = Hitting the respond button on a craigslist ad.
Difficult = Learning songs, packing up gear, rehearsing.

I think our society in general likes to hit that "easy" button for all manner of things.

I would, however, urge you to stay the course. Maybe hit some open mics...

Cheers,
Shirky

bingo!!!!

MysticMichael · #7 12-02-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crow01

Whatsup!

Been there, done that. It's not your responsibility to hold their hands.

Don't bother following up. Just keep looking until you find the right players who will actually show up. You might need to sift through a large number of 'em before the right people eventually materialize...

MM

debassr · #8 12-02-2008, 11:01 PM

The worst part is - the ones who WILL show up on time are often the ones who can't play so well.

BassChuck · #9 12-03-2008, 05:01 AM

The fact that its difficult to get a band together and giging is exactly what makes it great.

realdeal · #10 12-03-2008, 07:42 AM

It's about $$...

I 've been through exactly what you're referring to, (and have to admit, there have been times I've flaked) however, here's the deal, having to do with the real world---

I contracted a steady, recurring GOOD PAYING week-end job-
Upscale club, R&B pocket rhythm section, backing a very talented (and HOT!) Female Vocalist.

I formed the core rhythm section with keys and drums that I had worked with before; added guitar, sax, and (2) ladies doing back-up vocals.
My friend, when you can pay a musician, they will come out of the woodwork, and missing a rehearsal means you lose the gig.

I've since rotated through drums and guitars a few times,as well as the back-up vocalists and when I've posted either on the local CL or through the Musicians Union, I state the sound/style I want, what the job pays, rehearsal requirements, followed by an audition format.

Never a shortage of interested and talented players, and at $100/rehearsal (We don't waste time, there's charts and arrangements, and the pocket and groove are established) and good pay for the 3-set shows,
It's a business. It's also called working with professionals.
Pretty nice place to be.

As far as forming/starting up a band, lotsa luck.
To find committed, talented players, on the same page artistically, without the issues and drama that can get in the way of developing a project...
Jeesh.

So many babies out there.....

Good luck to you; keep trying.

Phalex · #11 12-03-2008, 07:53 AM

Reliable Musician??? It's a contradiction in terms my friend.

realdeal · #12 12-03-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalex

Reliable Musician??? It's a contradiction in terms my friend.

NOT when you are dealing with or working for or with a
professional.

And by "professional" certainly it's defined by money, as in getting paid, but ya know- even WITHOUT getting a pay-out,
a MUSICIAN can still ACT like and be a "professional"

That's the difference.

Musicians aren't by definition flakes. Flakes are flakes.

LilMissStrange · #13 12-06-2008, 11:41 PM

Phew...geez I thought this was only a problem around here (Pittsburgh). *Wipes sweat from brow* I dont know what it is man. People suck. I dont know what the cure is. My first band never had a permenant drummer, so I was always on the local musicians classified website making phone calls or sending emails. I always got the usual: "oh yeah! Great! Im interested, lets go!" Then when it came time to schedule a meeting, they'd disappear. Even when we did get someone to actually come play, theyd show for about 2 or 3 jam sessions, then join the Witness Protection Program! I think maybe its that people take themselves to seriously and think they are WAY better than they really are, so when it comes time to walk the walk they know they cant! I dont know about you, but around here it seems people either have the drive but no talent, or they are talented but just dont care.

spade2you · #14 12-07-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realdeal

NOT when you are dealing with or working for or with a
professional.

And by "professional" certainly it's defined by money, as in getting paid, but ya know- even WITHOUT getting a pay-out,
a MUSICIAN can still ACT like and be a "professional"

That's the difference.

Musicians aren't by definition flakes. Flakes are flakes.

That might be true, but one must get/have experience before hitting the big leagues, which can be hard to do if you can't get in a band that's reliable enough go get somewhere.

Rapisme · #15 12-07-2008, 09:19 AM

Here's a little tibit.. Got an answer for a drummer through Cl. Was told that at the last possible minute it would be for an inconvient time where me and the guitar would be sitting around for a couple of hours..
He finally shows up. rips the tar out of my kit as he rips that the kit needs this an that new heads as well.
Tells us that he a pro doing rap sessions in the studio..
Till finally at the conclusion of the jam, he informs us that he's deaf in one ear and fells the vibration of the bass..
Granted he did answer the ad in his defense.. But common guys! everybody loves blowing themselves up!
The stories just keep on coming! ( I've played with pro's, I've taught pro's, I gig profesionally ).
Then why are people answering addy's then either showing with baggage or just outright flaking..

DWBass · #16 12-07-2008, 09:43 AM

Reliable musicians? What's that? I've had the last few rehearsals blown off. I'm at the point of just showing at the gig and winging it. These cats don't even realize we're opening for a 'name' act in 2 weeks! Granted we're doing songs we pretty much know but we have 2 new female singers we need to have at least a couple rehearsals with to work out song formats with. I'm very close to abandoning them for an established band.

Dave Muscato · #17 12-07-2008, 09:54 AM

You didn't say whether or not you're offering pay, but I'm gonna presume from what you're saying that you're not... realdeal nails it. If you are consistently getting only flakes responding to your ads, *you* may need to be more professional, too. That means having paying gigs lined up, and as bandleader, it may mean paying for rehearsals out of your pocket. It amuses me when people complain about lack of professionalism among hobbyists. The answer is built into the question... you want professionalism? Hire pros. It's not rocket science

Ask for references. *Check* references. Ask for recommendations from local studios and producers. Craigslist is useful for what it is, but that's not where I'd go first for professional backing or session players. If you are advertising for "some guys to get together & jam, and see what happens," you can't have an expectation of professionalism. Pros get paid, and have reputations to protect. That's what makes them pros. That's not to say there aren't reliable hobbyists, but try offering some incentive besides fun, if that's not getting you the desired result.

Hope this helps!

realdeal · #18 12-07-2008, 06:49 PM

Now back in the day...
When I was seeking different projects to work with and work for...
Before I grew up and DID IT MYSELF...MY WAY!!!....

But I digress...

I answered many ads that were looking for a Bassist...and had many unprofessional flakes and 'tudes enter the picture.
They wanted everything; offered nothing, and often were as flakey as a box of Kellogs.

It's a fact- You are either a working project- or you're not, and you probably want to be (i.e.-wannabee) That's not a put-down, it's a reality check.

Many many "bands' want to get the right members to do their thing, and sign that contract! Few will.

But- If you have an entity that is a working, professional situation, there will be no problem finding competent dedicated players. None whatsoever.

Do you think the say John Mayer would have difficulty in finding committed musicians?? Hows about Colby Caillet (sorry about the spelling)...mention her because a friend of a friend got the gig playing keys with her.

How's about Alicia Keys, or Boz Scaggs, or John Legend, or ...Hell, a replacement for Fall-Out Boy, I dunno! Same thing!

If you're "on-the-job" then it's a no-brainer. You can get TONS of talented players to fill your needs. Here in Los Angeles, it is overwhelming how much talent there is, equally overwhelming how much total BS there is...

So- get work lined up, , offer a pay-out, and you can get the tightest drummer, the hippest guitarist, the best vocals, killer sax, killer keys, even an in-the-pocket bassist!

Starting from the ground-up? Been there, done that.
Best of luck to 'ya. Really.

LilMissStrange · #19 12-07-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

You didn't say whether or not you're offering pay, but I'm gonna presume from what you're saying that you're not... realdeal nails it. If you are consistently getting only flakes responding to your ads, *you* may need to be more professional, too. That means having paying gigs lined up, and as bandleader, it may mean paying for rehearsals out of your pocket.

I can't completly agree w/ you here. It shouldn't matter whether there's money involved or not. You can still be professional, while not actually being professional. Professionalism means following up, SHOWING UP (on time) and staying in touch. If they cant even show up to the garage, what are they going to be like when there is money involved, like renting out rehearsal space, when there is something to lose? To me thats not a good impression. You only get one, and if you blow it youre done! What do you expect everyone to start out as professionals? Sorry, its just not possible. Not when youre living paycheck to paycheck and cant afford to rent out a studio. The Beatles and the Stones had to play in a moldy basement before they sold out Madison Square Garden! Youre not going to find all the musicians you need right down the street, so sometimes you have to go through other means to find them. So when you do find all youre key players, you rehearse, develop a sound as a band, start gigging and eventually make your way up to being professionals and making some money.

realdeal · #20 12-07-2008, 11:34 PM

even WITHOUT getting a pay-out,
a MUSICIAN can still ACT like and be a "professional"

Quoting myself here...

One of the first real PAID tours I did was based out of Baton Rouge LA, and some of the music I heard down South floored me. Before doing our tour, the leader led rehearsals for almost a month, 6-days a week 3-4 hours a day. Guess what? It paid off. After the first couple of "allright" shows to shake out the kinks, we nailed every complex polyrhythmic thing we did. Practice Practice Practice.

There are some SERIOUS musicians in New Orleans, Mississippi, etc. They take getting the pocket and the groove and the feel and the music for real, pay or no pay. (pay is better btw.)

When I came back to Los Angeles, I tried to apply the same principles of practice-to-perfection with many players in order to do my own project. Success was limited; there always seemed to be issues and divas, and players missing/coming late for rehearsals and such.
They were not acting like professionals, $$ or not.

But only after I contracted a gig, with good money for the players who could do the job, did I find the luxury of making it clear that there was no wiggle-room for acting like a fool-
No being late for rehearsal, no not learning your part (Charts!);
no 'tude, no nothing! Except acting like a dedicated working pro.

The first Vocalist who fronted the section got drunk with power, and thought she was the reason for being. She started coming late, was slacking in learning new material, and was generally argumentative and hard to deal with.

She was replaced by one of her (former) back-ups who has been doing a hella job for almost a year, and I had more "applicants" for her replacement on back-ups than I could possibly ever hear.

$300 a night for 3 sets; Fridays and Saturdays gives me a wide berth for using players who act like and play like pros- because that's what they gotta be!

I do agree with what you (and I!) said....
It's not only about the money, it's about doing the job, whether you're filling a role in a project, or part of your own start-up.

But in the end- it's still the Music Business, and like anything else- Money talks.