venue wants "contract and ryder?"

[its turbo time]

Im in a 3 piece cover band that does okay here locally and I got the call from my cousin that they requested us play at the bar/venue that she is having her high school reunion at.

The thing is, the venue wants a copy of our "contract and ryder" and we have never dealt with any of that, I've heard its a good thing to use, but still not sure on the best way to approact it.

ALSO, We usually charge like 450-600 for gigs, but this place is charging people $25 per person (not including drinks) and there should be over 200 people. What do you think we should charge?

Any help on either of these subject would be greatly appreciated!

[Gearhead17]

One suggestion is to go on Google and search for sample band contracts along with "riders". You can use the form you find and replace terms to fit your band.

You need to find out what portion of the $25 ticket is going towards the event. Talk to your cousin first. Maybe charging $10 a person from that - times 200 people equals $2000 for the show. Live sound included?

I suggest meeting with them as a band or just one person from the band. Make sure you are getting sound, if food is provided for the band, a place to put your gear and what they want you to do as far as set length.

[stingraysvt]

More than likely they are asking so the sound guy will have a stage plot. Input list helps too

1. Kick
2. Snare
3. Hat
4. Rack
5. Floor
6. Bass DI
7. Bass Mic
8. Guitar
9. Vox
10. Vox etc...

If you guys prefer certain drinks or fruit trays, vegetable trays you can sneak that in there and see what happens

[Rockmusician]

There are several attorney software packages available where you can create your own contract and rider. It is probably worth investing in one of them.

[its turbo time]

thanks for the info guys! for the record I knew he meant "rider" but I wanted to share the misspelling with you guys.

So, should we meet with the place before we submit a contract? Or should I submit one know since he requested one? Also, if I submit something will they try to conter offer?

I googled some contracts and I think I could make something up based on one of those.

So food, sound guy, money are the big ones?

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by its turbo time

thanks for the info guys! for the record I knew he meant "rider" but I wanted to share the misspelling with you guys.

So, should we meet with the place before we submit a contract? Or should I submit one know since he requested one? Also, if I submit something will they try to conter offer?

I googled some contracts and I think I could make something up based on one of those.

So food, sound guy, money are the big ones?

Counteroffer is always a possibility. Submit the contract first and say the final price is negotiable. As for sound, find out if they have someone lined up and TALK TO THE SOUNDGUY before the show. A PA system to some people is one speaker, one powered mixer and a budget mic that will feedback if you look at it wrong. Possibly hire sound yourself and submit that price to the people in charge.

Decide on a price for the band and what it would cost extra for sound. If they picked you already, just shoot for the moon with the price and meet with them to negotiate.

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by its turbo time

So food, sound guy, money are the big ones?

Yeah. Maybe add a line item about groupies MUST be provided at the end of the show based on "your needs". Terrible, but funny.

[Marginal Tom]

Insist on a bowl of M&M's for the band, and instruct them to remove all of the green ones.

[Music Attorney]

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

One suggestion is to go on Google and search for sample band contracts along with "riders".

Or you could take a look at post #11 here
Contracts

Best,
MA

[its turbo time]

here's the contract I just emailed the guy:

NAME OF ACT: xxx
VENUE: xxx
ADDRESS: xxxx
TEL NO: xxx
DATE: 11/26/2011
CONTACT: xxxx
SET BY: 8.30PM
PERFORMANCE: 9.00PM TO 1.00 AM negotiable
SALARY/FEE: $2000 final price negotiable
METHOD OF PAYMENT: cash on the night
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Venue to be contacted 1 week prior to date by artist to confirm appearance. Venue to provide PA system and sound guy.
__________________________________________________ _________

Signed:____________Client. Signed:_____________Artist.

Date:______________ Date:_______________

PLEASE SIGN & RETURN ONE COPY OF THIS CONTRACT WITHIN 7 DAYS
__________________________________________________ _________

THE CONDITIONS OVERLEAF ARE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THIS CONTRACT.


I put "xxx" in some of the blanks so this hopefully won't show up in a google search

[Munjibunga]

You should've used a version of the one Music Attorney recommended.

[runmikeyrun]

Riders can specify certain equipment... for instance one might specify a certain amount of wattage for FOH, a certain mixing desk, etc. They usually specify a certain brand "or equivalent" so the club can give something of comparable quality. I agree that you should find out about the house PA and/or sound guy. You don't want to get screwed with a crap PA. Like was stated above, be prepared to rent one and add that into the cost if you need to.

While you can figure what the club is charging per person into the event, you also have to be realistic. If you ask $2000 but the going rate for a cover band is $800 they'll just call someone else to do it. Be prepared to negotiate with the club if they think you're asking too much- ask your band what their lowest number is.

For the club to add 4 or 5 people to their catering bill when they already have 200 being catered isn't a big deal, so definitely include food and drinks in there.

Lastly, as stated above, find out how long they want you to play, and propose how you'll break up the set. They might want you to start at 9:00 but the event may not end until 2am. That's something you def need to work out ahead of time.

Good luck, sounds like it could be a fun show to play!

EDIT: OOPS! Looks like you submitted your contract before I finished typing this.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by its turbo time

Venue to provide PA system and sound guy.

Not enough detail.

One speaker and a 100w mixing board would satisfy your requirement.

[its turbo time]

Right as i hit send on the email with the contract I reloaded this page and saw the one Music Attorney posted, otherwise I would have used that one. dang...

$2000 does seem like a lot of money, but there are a handful of cover bands around here that get close to $3000 for a 4 hour set for a venue this size with a $5 cover. And since they will be charging people $25 bucks a person I didn't think it was too unreasonable. We'll see how they respond.

This place has a really nice sound system, I've watched a few bands play there before and it sounded good. I'll be sure to bring that up though.

[MNAirHead]

EVERYONE should have both.... EVEN if they don't sign and return it.

IT should have timelines... power considerations.. timelines... etc.

Your rider should spell out what type of physical space you need and or what "supplied PA means"

----

MANAGEMENT OPINION ---
I'd charge your $600, then plan out your visuals.... get the guys to dress coordinated and well. THEN have a professional (not your relative or friend) take photographs... thousands of them. You then receive the OKeykoke for a written referral.

The first social, corporate and public events are tough to break into.. most dork musicians forget to use it as a marketing opportunity.

[MNAirHead]

Oh yea...

For an event like this, you should spell out the stage required. .. stages suck.. you want them to take care of the logicitcs

[Doctor Dirt]

Eat before you go, so food is OUT, bring your own sound if possible so Sound Company is OUT, set your pay at what YOU think is appropriate for the evening! If the bars sound tech has to be involved its on the bar not you, your not bringing him in they are. Definetely sit down with him at set up time and go over your sent ryder. Explain in very simple terms what you'd like from the front reinforcement. Then sound check your stage first then the fronts. If you have a wireless this is the time to utilize it, get out front and check out whats happening. The bottom line is that a sound company can make or break any band at any gig. I've opened festivals and head lined them and have had great shows from the open to the finally and have gotten dumped on in both spots too, good luck and don't be cocky but don't be wimpy either. Just treat the sound guy like a misician.................who could have been!!!! Maybe disregard that part for now!!!
Anytime you can control your bandstand using your gear and have a one on one relationship to whos paying you do that. No middle men as far as pay outs, no sound people if not needed. Contracts are ALWAYS a good idea, obviously you haven't run into double bookings yet or the "guy with the dough" just stepped out!!! Lots of things to learn the first is to do without you don't really need. Good luck! Doc

[hrodbert696]

On the pricing aspect; if they are charging $25 a person for 200 people, they are bringing in $5000. I would not be at all surprised if the catering is running $15-20 per person if they're serving anything more than giant pots of chili (that's about what it cost to cater my wedding fifteen years ago, and we were trying to keep costs down). That's $3000-4000 right there. Plus they have to rent the facility, including paying any waitstaff/bartender/dishwashers/maintenance guys they are using, who may or may not be included in the food costs. There are probably additional costs for decoration, communications and advertising, and who knows what else.

Bottom line: I don't think you're going to get anywhere charging them $2000. They may very well have asked you after hearing that you normally cost about $500. You can probably justify charging them more than your average, especially if you're providing PA, but not quadruple your regular price. I'd vote $750-800.

[its turbo time]

so I emailed the above mentioned contract to one guy, but then I got an email back from a different person that I had emailed before but not gotten any response from that reads:

"Hey James,

We are ok to book you guys for 11/26 along with the Reunion. We usually do 80% of the door deal, but with it being mostly for the reunion I’m sure you will want some sort of guarantee."

what do you guys make of that? do you think she knows I submitted a contract? and the 80% deal, is that we get 80% of the money thats collected at the door?

the thing about this "party" is that the party gets the upstairs balcony for a set amount of hours and is $25 a head. thats where they are expecting the 200 hundred people from. Downstairs is open to the public and its less than $25 to get in. I was told the $25/person goes towards them booking a band. What would you guys do?

thanks again guys!

[Freddels]

I would respond in writing with something that spells out what you believe . . . that the cost is $25 per person and so if you understand them correctly, they are going to pay you $20 ($25x80%) per person that attends.

If you're pretty confident that there will be a good turnout and you can have someone that can validate the # of people, then it sounds like a pretty good deal.