Venues that won't advertise for live music

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

What frustrates me is when we go to the trouble and expense of making posters and shipping them to the venue weeks in advance and they can't be bothered to even put them up around the bar. Then the next time we play there they complain that we didn't send them posters this time.

This used to happen to my band a lot. There were even times the BL would hand-deliver the posters two or three weeks in advance and we'd get there for the gig and... nada.

Now we hardly play bars anymore but it was just infuriating. And these were bars that were paying us pretty hefty guarantees (vs. take of door)... so they had skin in the game and STILL wouldn't do anything.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by SBassman

In my corner of the world, I don't think most venue owners would want me to tell them to do their part. I don't think that would go over well.

In the past, if a venue demonstrated they put up posters for other bands, we'd give them posters for our band/gig. If they didn't, we didn't say anything. If they are smart enough to use online sources - FB, local websites - then that is great, but, I don't think you Tell them to do so if they are not. In my region, I think that would be a pretty quick way to fall out of grace with the venue owner.

They don't want to be told how to do their job, even if very often, we all know they do it poorly.

I wouldn't necessarily volunteer that what I think a venue owner doing was wrong. However, if they bounced me about low attendance and it's evident they didn't lift a finger to make the night successful, then I will kindly remind them that promotion is their responsibility as well - which is what it sounds like Cognito's situation was like.

Honestly, how some bar owners approach business would probably get them laughed out of other industries (if thier lousy business acumen didn't get them eaten by the competition first).

[Roadkill]

Yah know - a few years back I looked into the economics of running a small club and I couldn't figure out how it could ever be more than a hobby. For those of you that think most venue owners are nuts guess what - if they weren't nuts they wouldn't own a venue . One thing I found out was that some small venues don't advertise because they don't want to draw community attention to themselves. If your place starts to get popular the cops and politicians start hanging out with their hands out and/or disrupting your business. Dunno what the going rate is in your area for an off-duty cop to "direct traffic" (AKA not set up a DUI checkpoint near your place) but it about the same as a band is paid around here. Then comes the requests for donations to the Rotary Club, Lion's, etc. The more successful you appear the more they expect. Earlier this year an "under new management" venue on the Long Island coast here had a full traffic enforcement team set up in their parking lot and across the street the first weekend - I counted 4 cars . I told the owner to go join the local Chamber of Commerce - I guess they clued him in as there was no more of that thereafter . Of course now he can't be paying the bands what he started at .

[jmattbassplaya]

Funny story that happened just recently. We were scheduled to play a pretty happening bar around town for original music and about two weeks prior to the gig we gave the venue 10-12 posters to put up to help advertise for the gig. On the night of the gig we got to the bar and saw zero posters on the door/window for us. We were a little upset by this, but figured whatever. Anyways, I went to the bathroom later that night and sure as rain there were about 6 posters hanging up for us right outside the bathroom doors


Keep in mind that this bar loves us. They only ask us to play Fridays and Saturdays, and they give us a better rate than most other bands in the area. Still, I thought it was pretty funny that they'd only put our posters up there lol.

[lowfreq33]

While you guys are feeling bad for club owners bear in mind that the markup on beer and liquor is between 300-500%. Their cost on a bottle of bud is around 70 cents.

[interp]

One constant I've observed in 40+ years of playing gigs is that every bar/club owner fervently believes that a good crowd means people like the bar and a poor crowd means people don't like the band.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

While you guys are feeling bad for club owners bear in mind that the markup on beer and liquor is between 300-500%. Their cost on a bottle of bud is around 70 cents.

Now just subtract staff, maintenance, debt service, licenses, insurance, taxes, legal fees and graft from that and now you know why they don't sell it for 70 cents. I do know in Massachusetts a venue can't just pay package store prices for that beer either, you have to order it from a wholesale supplier and pay more as the tax rate is lower on a bottle sold for home consumption.

[metlman72]

My band usually will post the flyer right on the venues FB if they will not advertise it.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Now just subtract staff, maintenance, debt service, licenses, insurance, taxes, legal fees and graft from that and now you know why they don't sell it for 70 cents. I do know in Massachusetts a venue can't just pay package store prices for that beer either, you have to order it from a wholesale supplier and pay more as the tax rate is lower on a bottle sold for home consumption.

I was in the restaurant/bar business for several years, I'm aware of all the associated costs.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

I was in the restaurant/bar business for several years, I'm aware of all the associated costs.

So, why did you get out if you was rollin' in da dough as you implied?

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Anyways, I went to the bathroom later that night and sure as rain there were about 6 posters hanging up for us right outside the bathroom doors

I'll go you one better. One place I was at put our posters up directly over the urinals.

I mean yeah, definite high visibility but it's kinda weird having the smiling face of your BL staring right at you while you're having a drain...

[pklima]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Funny story that happened just recently. We were scheduled to play a pretty happening bar around town for original music and about two weeks prior to the gig we gave the venue 10-12 posters to put up to help advertise for the gig. On the night of the gig we got to the bar and saw zero posters on the door/window for us. We were a little upset by this, but figured whatever. Anyways, I went to the bathroom later that night and sure as rain there were about 6 posters hanging up for us right outside the bathroom doors

LOL. I think I can beat that, though. I did a weekly gig at a bar at a five-star hotel this summer. They never advertised anything. We did, though, see one flyer posted a few weeks into this. Forget outside of bathrooms - it was on a wall inside the wine cellar which was being temporarily used to store the PA.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

While you guys are feeling bad for club owners bear in mind that the markup on beer and liquor is between 300-500%. Their cost on a bottle of bud is around 70 cents.

This, PLUS check out the wages in YOUR state for tipped employees.

Anyone with sense can make a FORTUNE running a bar/tavern/restaurant, but most people who try to do so don't have any.

And that's why so many fail.

I worked in that industry for years, and I saw some real evil people.

Club owners will get no tears from me, that's for sure!

[troy mcclure]

I find many bar owners who are not doing well are just plain lazy. they do no marketing, run no specials and provide very bad customer service , yet blame the band when they don't make money.

[troy mcclure]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Funny story that happened just recently. We were scheduled to play a pretty happening bar around town for original music and about two weeks prior to the gig we gave the venue 10-12 posters to put up to help advertise for the gig. On the night of the gig we got to the bar and saw zero posters on the door/window for us. We were a little upset by this, but figured whatever. Anyways, I went to the bathroom later that night and sure as rain there were about 6 posters hanging up for us right outside the bathroom doors


Keep in mind that this bar loves us. They only ask us to play Fridays and Saturdays, and they give us a better rate than most other bands in the area. Still, I thought it was pretty funny that they'd only put our posters up there lol.

If I make flyers for a gig , i always place them on the restroom doors.

[Chef FourString]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I did (and I mentioned it above), but there's only so much a band can do to draw people into a club. Working together as a team seems to yield the best results.

I know you mentioned it and I agree that if a club works with you on ads you'll have the best chance. I'm from a place where its all DIY. The bars around here could care less about us or anyone, for that matter. I'm just trying to stay positive for ya, buddy. The only advice I can give is what I stated before. DIY.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Chef FourString

I understand the frustration but if you know they won't/don't advertise then DIY.

That's exactly what they have started counting on. The reason they don't spend any time/money/effort on advertising is that they have suckered the bands themselves into doing it for them. So many people out there are just itching to play in front of people that they will agree to anything to get a gig, spoken or not. That's the same reason pay for bands has gone down. People who are just itching to play keep doing those cheap "get your foot in the door" gigs so the rest of us have a hard time getting real money to play. It's the club "circle of life". Bands do all the work. And when the bands die, the club owners eat the bands.

[Chef FourString]

Originally Posted by two fingers

That's exactly what they have started counting on. The reason they don't spend any time/money/effort on advertising is that they have suckered the bands themselves into doing it for them. So many people out there are just itching to play in front of people that they will agree to anything to get a gig, spoken or not. That's the same reason pay for bands has gone down. People who are just itching to play keep doing those cheap "get your foot in the door" gigs so the rest of us have a hard time getting real money to play. It's the club "circle of life". Bands do all the work. And when the bands die, the club owners eat the bands.

I absolutely see where you're coming from. That sounds like a place with a broad spectrum of music to be had. Down here the theory still applies but mostly all we have are the same old hacks playing the same ****** country and blues for years. Not good country or blues, the **** kind, mind you.

These guys literary run the live scene and the bars let them. The bars don't want to do the work period. They just say, "Sure, that night will be dead anyways." Most of them play for 40 bucks and a beer tab. There is no progress to fix the problem between the two parties. The solution is so simple but everyone has become accustomed to this rut. They see no need for change. It's maddening.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by troy mcclure

I find many bar owners who are not doing well are just plain lazy. they do no marketing, run no specials and provide very bad customer service , yet blame the band when they don't make money.

Agree, for every good owner there are 10 bad ones I swear. I know a few good ones who are hands on and they promote all bands who play there. You also see them there most of the night. Allot of owners use bad management and expect the cash to roll in but most rolls away or out the door.

[bumperbass]

Last Spring we had a bar owner tell us they didn't advertise because they'd be visited by the ASCAP/BMI folks. He paid $750 the year before with a bar he sold. Around here, most bars that advertise do it in the local paper on the entertainment page. It's been that way for 40 years, I guess. Anyway, the owner bought another club which was formerly a teen hangout, and changed the name, of course. We were trying to play for less than our normal fee because we wanted to get more gigs after the club got stocked up a bit, and he said we would be rewarded for helping him get established.. We did about 4 gigs and never went back. Sometimes we played for 15 people. We figured this place would die an early death. It's still for sale after it closed down in August. He did no advertising at all. Pretty silly when you consider he was starting over with a new image. We did our part with flyers and FB, but this club apparently could not overcome its past.
Whoever said that a bar owner thinks it's because of HIS wonderful venue when the crowd is good and the band's fault if the crowd sucks is really spot on.