Waiting on payment from a religous performance.

'JC' · #1 04-12-2007, 01:10 PM

Been a while since I posted, but felt I could use some feedback from other bassists on an issue I've been debating on for a while now.

I agreed to audition for a paying church gig and did so.
It went well enough for me to be asked to try playing the following Sunday. Only problems were Daylight savings time was moved this year and I arrived about 15 minutes late to the rehersal but that's not relevant to the problem I have at present.

I was told I was one of three trying out and each would have a week to try a service. I was also told the service would pay for that 1 week performance/audition.

It's been over a month now and the music director has not responded to the emails I've sent (which he requested asking for my mailing address in order to send the check.)
Originally this was not about money, but I feel compelled to stick to that now considering the lack of integrity I feel this person has shown.

I plan on going a step above and presenting this to the pastor, but am unsure how to do so in a professional manner that does not make me look as if it's just about the money.

Thoughts?

CrashClint · #2 04-12-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'JC'

I plan on going a step above and presenting this to the pastor, but am unsure how to do so in a professional manner that does not make me look as if it's just about the money.

Thoughts?

I know it is a church, but in this case you have to treat it like a business. There was a Verbal Contract upfront between you and the Music Director that you would be paid for your audition time for the Sunday you played. What I would do is go to Microsoft and download a Invoice Template and put together a professional looking invoice. I will put a link to where you can download one in MS Word or Excel. I would list on the invoice, the agreed amount, the day of the services, whom the agreement was with. I would also put a short summary of your attempts to contact the Worship leader. I would also put please remit within 10 days on the invoice and make sure your contact information is clearly visible. I would address this to the pastor with a return reciept request. I would mail the letter and then in a few days call to make sure they received the invoice.

I work with a lot of Not for Profit, churches, ministries and trade associations as I build websites on the side. Some are a little slow in paying, so for those I will nornally follow up with a call. Do not feel bad about asking for payment because that was agreed upon before services were rendered.

I know there are a lot of churches that pay their musicians, my church does not pay musicians, but I do turn in receipts for my strings which goes toward my yearly giving and they did pay to have my amp repaired when our "sound ameoba" in training turned on the phantom power and blew out my DI
.

jonly · #3 04-12-2007, 01:43 PM

I personally never pursue money from a NFP before 90 days. I have worked as a consultant (not a musician) for quite a few of them in the last decade.

bradjonesbass · #4 04-12-2007, 05:53 PM

NFPs are notoriously slow. They have committees and boards and all kinds of stuff to go through before the money is made available. Do send an invoice, and politely remind the musical director of the agreement. Quote the verse about paying what you owe and living up to agreements... that should take care of it. My church is a free gig for all but the paid staff member who serves as worship director, so we don't have these issues. Of that, I'm thankful.

justabass · #5 04-12-2007, 07:16 PM

Luke 10:7-The laborer is worthy of his hire...

Rattman · #6 04-12-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradjonesbass

NFPs are notoriously slow. They have committees and boards and all kinds of stuff to go through before the money is made available. Do send an invoice, and politely remind the musical director of the agreement. Quote the verse about paying what you owe and living up to agreements... that should take care of it.

Thats sounds like the best way to approach the issue. Well-documented, with plenty of details without getting pushy. I think you'll get your fee.

mandrlane · #7 04-13-2007, 08:16 AM

I agree with the above post... the only thing I would add is that you should not be afraid to stand up for yourself if there is a problem.... I'm a Christian and on rotation at my church... I hold Christians to a higher standard. If a regular shmo breaks their word you expect it... from Christians you do not.

GaryM · #8 04-13-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandrlane

If a regular shmo breaks their word you expect it... from Christians you do not.

That's funny, it's the other way around for me.

disco666 · #9 04-13-2007, 11:11 AM

Unfortunatly every church I've dealt with has been bad about this. I quoted Luke 10:7 to a preacher, who got pissed but he payed. Some people just have a mentallity that being a musician is not REAL work. But your time is worth it.

Rids · #10 04-15-2007, 05:01 PM

just dont go soft on them because they are a church

AdlerAugen · #11 04-15-2007, 06:53 PM

NFP organizations might take a while. My school and church are both NFP, and they have boards and committees up the hilt. How many committees? We have various positions in the church, in charge of certain things. Every year they are elected. Now, they are nominated by the nominating committee. This committee is elected by another committee. This committee to elect the nominating committee is elected by the church as a whole. Now, you get the people in charge, the church board members, etc., but now there's the business meetings. Anything with money has to go to the board, and be passed at the final stage by business meetings, which every church member is supposed to be a part of. Granted, most people don't show up unless it's a particularly controversial issue, but it's a lot of red tape. Don't expect any money immediately. It's not quite as bad as government red tape, but since they are NFP they are required by the government to have a certain amount of red tape.

EDIT: But if they're just not paying then that's a different story. By all means hold Christians to higher standards. We aren't perfect by any means, but we try to be. Higher standards give us something to shoot for after all. A higher power is pretty much the foundation of our existance, so higher standards should be held.

bradjonesbass · #12 04-16-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrlane
If a regular shmo breaks their word you expect it... from Christians you do not.

That's funny, it's the other way around for me.
__________________

Unfortunately I have to agree. I will never work for a Christian or Christian organization again. Too many stories to go into here, but 2 former employers (both Christians) owe me in excess of $5,000 each, and two others and various Christian orgs I've worked for were, well, cheap. Low pay, poor insurance and other benefits, etc... not anymore.

::Saint:: · #13 04-18-2007, 10:19 AM

Yet another illustration of why business and church do not mix. And yes, in my dealings with other Christians I have found them much less reliable in financial situations than other people. It's almost as if there is some sort of unspoken rule that Christians have to give other Christians some sort of unlimited lenience in financial affairs.

I am also offended by the notion of a church "paying" your expenses (strings, etc) by way of adding it to your yearly giving. Your yearly giving is none of their friggin business, nor concern, and it is your choice when and how you give anything to anyone. The church should NOT be involved in that - they reimburse what you are owed, period.

invader3k · #14 04-18-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::Saint::

Yet another illustration of why business and church do not mix. And yes, in my dealings with other Christians I have found them much less reliable in financial situations than other people. It's almost as if there is some sort of unspoken rule that Christians have to give other Christians some sort of unlimited lenience in financial affairs.

I've experienced that sometimes too, with my previous job in advertising sales. I'd have clients that were very vocal about how they were practicing Christians, but sometimes they'd be the worst when it came to paying on time. I think they tend to not worry about finances as much, and think they still don't need to pay their bills on time. This doesn't go for all of them, of course.

QORC · #15 04-18-2007, 11:13 AM

Luke 21:19

Steve · #16 04-20-2007, 07:18 PM

Don't kid yourself for one second. They got's the money. Plenty of it. Go get it.

You don't have to be a jerk but I would certainly go over there at this point, be firm and ask for the money or ask them to explain to you exactly why it is that they don't think they should have to pay you as agreed.

Or, you can always quote Jerk 10:99. "Pay me or I'm gonna file a mechanics lein"

The very LEAST they can do is give you a charitable contribution voucher for about 5x what the pay would have been so you can file it with yout taxes.

Plinkerton · #17 04-20-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryM

That's funny, it's the other way around for me.

Amen to that...

Wait...

Indiana Mike · #18 04-20-2007, 07:45 PM

I see you have donated your time and wages to the church .

"I'll put them in the collection box for you"

Good luck

bongomania · #19 04-20-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandrlane

If a regular shmo breaks their word you expect it... from Christians you do not.

AxtoOx · #20 04-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Kind of Off topic, but something to think about. I bought my house from a Preacher. I am continually getting collection letters and even calls. ( they are x-ref the address because they won't respond).
Me and my family are Christians, but one piece of advice my Dad gave me has always stuck. Never do business w/ someone who prints a fish on their business card, they'll burn you more times than not. They are using that to establish trust. Unearned trust.