Warning message to guitarist - how did I do?

oniman7 · #1 04-14-2011, 06:26 PM

We've been having problems with my guitarist lately, and the rest of the band has talked about it and we set on a course of action. The whole band wasn't there at the last practice, so I didn't want to do it with anyone absent.

Instead, I decided on an almost counterintuitive method. I decided to send him a private message so that we could talk candidly and he wouldn't feel like I was calling him out to everybody. I sent this a couple of minutes ago.

Quote:

Dakota Potts April 14 at 8:19pm
So, me and the band decided we needed to have a talk with you. But I thought that by doing it over a private chat, I could make it more constructive criticism without you feeling like I've called you out in front of everyone. Everybody agrees we need to have this talk, but none of them know we are now, and we can keep it between us.

Anyways, as I'm sure you've figured out, this message is about your participation in the band. I want to stress right now that as of last Wednesday, you did a GREAT job working with everybody and keeping everything under control. In total contrast, Sunday was a disaster and that kind of behavior is completely unacceptable.

After those two paragraphs, I'm sure you want to cut to the chase. If we are going to make this work as a band, there are some attitude issues that you need to work on. I'm willing to forget anything ever happened. However, we've decided to sort of place you on "probation". We'll ignore every bad thing we feel like you've done as long as you keep in mind some things and actively work on them.

-Keep your attitude in check
-Be willing to look at things from a different point of view. I know I'm guilty of this as well, but I'm working on it too.
-Keep any arrogance in check
-In part writing, you need to remember that we're different from you, and we're willing to sacrifice good theory if it sounds good. I believe in knowing the rules and then sometimes breaking them.
-There are many times when we need you to play less, or more tastefully. Less solos and fast parts. Also, more room for vocals.
-Sloppiness is your main playing issue. If you would spend a good amount of time making your playing cleaner, you would be an amazing guitar player, but it's holding you back right now.
-No more yelling at people in general.
-No more telling people that something is "between me and X". If it has to do with the band, it's a whole band issue. If it is completely unrelated to the band, music, instruments, etc. then you can say that.
-No more hitting/violent touching (this includes the Vulcan death grip)
-No more threats of breaking things, killing people, etc. (joking or not)
-No more saying things like "bass players can just play arpeggios and be happy" or anything derogatory about any member of the band.
-Remember that William is your equal in most ways, your superior in some, and your inferior in others. You are equal players with different strengths and weaknesses. And sometimes he could use a solo.

-Also, as a BAND, we will be working on the jamming between songs. I just wanted to bring this up now, but we're all guilty of it. Instruments are to be played unamplified unless the whole band is practicing songs, or with the consent of everybody present.

I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you. However, all of these things have been issues in the past. You're a good guitar player and together we have a unique sound. If you work with us, we can work with you and make it work. If not, we'll have little choice but to continue without you. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

He hasn't responded yet, and I don't know when he will. But how do you feel this message was constructed?

Philonius · #2 04-14-2011, 06:29 PM

Well, he sure sounds like a great fella.

Edit:

Look at me, all helpful and stuff.

oniman7 · #3 04-14-2011, 06:33 PM

If he acts at every practice like he did at this last one, he'd be a great guy. To be honest, I expect him to continue acting the way he is now despite warnings (like my last two guitarists) and it will eventually be necessary to get rid of him. However, as a band, we decided we would collectively be the bigger man, give him a warning, and give him an opportunity to change. That's the way any of us would want it to happen.

I am a little worried about him exploding down the road or messing up important things, but I'm hoping this will show us a little of how he'll be under some pressure.

prd004 · #4 04-14-2011, 06:33 PM

Sounds like quite a bit of baggage. What took so long?!

oniman7 · #5 04-14-2011, 06:35 PM

I've only been playing with him since January. It's only been a big problem for about a month, and we figured it was a phase. Reached a culmination last Sunday when he exploded and pitched a fit and wasted 3 hours trying to convince us to re-write a song the other guitarist wrote (after he tried to re-write it on his own without him there and slip it in), and ended up insulting almost everybody.

OlSkewl56 · #6 04-14-2011, 06:37 PM

People have got to get along to make it work.
Calling out his faults as well as your own gets this mess out of the way now before someone else explodes.
i'm sure he's upset now, but may get over it, quit,etc.
Who knows but you set the table.

Unrepresented · #7 04-14-2011, 06:37 PM

It's a more mature address than I'm capable of making.

Ultimately you know your guitarist and how he'll react better than I do. Different people take different approaches.

Coop Soup · #8 04-14-2011, 06:37 PM

Your message was fine, but I would have done it in person.

oniman7 · #9 04-14-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop Soup

Your message was fine, but I would have done it in person.

I would have as well, but there were a couple of reasons I didn't.
First of all, I wanted to wait for the full band to be there if I was going to take that route. However, we're playing a BOTB at my school (which has been our pinnacle goal for months). We only have 3 weeks left, we're finishing our setlist, but we need every bit we can get. I didn't want to wait any longer to get this settled, because it's caused us to waste too much time already.

Also, to be quite frank, I don't think I would have been able to get all of that out straight without him arguing it or twisting it or bringing me off topic. I was able to get all of my thoughts out uninterrupted this way.

Munjibunga · #10 04-14-2011, 06:48 PM

Work on your grammar.

T.A.P Bass · #11 04-14-2011, 06:49 PM

I agree with Coop, in person would have been the best approach. But you didn't just drag him through the mud, you also expressed areas where you need some work too. Good luck, looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

oniman7 · #12 04-14-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Work on your grammar.

How so? I'm aware it reads a little stilted, but what do you see in it?

TN WOODMAN · #13 04-14-2011, 06:54 PM

So, you wanted to have a private one and one conservation with guitarist to get to the bottom of issues. Then posted said statement of issues on a public internet forum. I see...

oniman7 · #14 04-14-2011, 06:56 PM

Call it insecurity. But what I'm really craving right now is input on the actual content of it. I figured that people in bands would know what I was talking about and hopefully offer some criticism.

Rockmusician · #15 04-14-2011, 06:57 PM

Would have been better in person or over the phone. Even though your intentions were good, doing it via email is kind of the coward's way out. You stated that the message is just between the two of you, but yet you posted it here and I can guarantee that he is sharing it with friends and possibly other members of the band. The fact that you did this without the consent of the band could also cause problems for you. When someone reads an email it is very difficult to understand the tone that the sender was trying to convey. I understand the urgency you have in trying to deal with this issue as soon as possible, but sometimes it's better to wait and handle it in person. Even if he doesn't like what you are telling him, he will respect the fact that you had the decency to do it face to face.

oniman7 · #16 04-14-2011, 06:58 PM

I had the consent of the full band to have a conversation with him. They just don't know that I chose to do it at this time. They were all fully aware that I was planning to talk to him about it and gave me the go ahead.

I understand the face to face issues now. Maybe it would have been better face to face. I feel like each has it's benefits, even as this is the coward's way out.

fretlessguy · #17 04-14-2011, 07:02 PM

Yes, it is better to do it in person, but I thought your approach of giving precise areas of needed improvment, giving him some positive points as well, and admitting your own areas needing improvement as well set a good tone. I hope it goes well, and things can be worked out.
Do not be surprised if he reacts negatively, or goes behind your back to talk to the others to over rule you.
After reading his list of areas of improvement, I must commend you and your bandmates for not trying to give him an enima with his guitar. He really sounds difficult to get along with.

T.A.P Bass · #18 04-14-2011, 07:03 PM

Also considering that your band is entered in a BOTB at your school implies an air of youth to you and your cohorts. Consider this experience and the outcome as a step towards how an adult might handle a situation like this one. Live and Learn

faulknersj · #19 04-14-2011, 07:05 PM

Munjibunga is the unofficial TB grammar police, he posts something to that effect on most threads so don't worry about him. I thought you constructed your private message in a way that was direct and 'to the point' without being condecending. Personal chemistry can be as important as musical chemistry; it is good that you addressed the issue and put the ball in your guitar players court. Munjibunga, if you are offended by any gramatical errors in this or any of my other posts, please realize that I don't care. Perhaps there is an English Grammar Society site somewhere that can further feed your sense of literary superiority. Best wishes to th OP! Let those of us interested in the outcome of this situation (vs. Internet grammar) know how things work out!

selftitled907 · #20 04-14-2011, 07:08 PM

Also keep in mind....he may be completly clueless to what is going on in the sence that he might not think he is being out of line with how he is acting. if this is the first time you and the band are approaching him about it....i would say be gentile.

i had a very similar situation. when we finally brought up our issues with the guitar player he was dumbfounded that we had as much to say as we did. but at the same time it made him take a long hard look at how he was doing things, and slowly but surely he is making changes to fix these problems.

in other words. give him a chance to explain himself on a non screaming/threatening way and make sure to actually listen to him. (as im sure you would based on your demenor from the message.) but dont have everyone else in the band steamroll him unless you want him to just leave.

on the other hand. if i had a guitar player hitting or pulling any vulcan techniques i would have him put down his guitar and pick up a tamborine for fear of him using his guitar as a weapon instead of his fists.

good luck with all this. guitarists are difficult people.