Are we being suckered?

ogrossman · #1 12-01-2007, 01:45 AM

We've been the opening act a couple times in the past month for a tribute band that's pretty popular here in the Upper Midwest. At the first gig the house sound man knows us real well and he got us $200. We didn't make anything at the second gig; not even gas money. Now they're asking us to open for them again and I'm wondering if we should expect to get payed something? Or should we just keep opening for these guys and hope that one of the bars offers us a paying gig?

Curtybob · #2 12-01-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogrossman

We've been the opening act a couple times in the past month for a tribute band that's pretty popular here in the Upper Midwest. At the first gig the house sound man knows us real well and he got us $200. We didn't make anything at the second gig; not even gas money. Now they're asking us to open for them again and I'm wondering if we should expect to get payed something? Or should we just keep opening for these guys and hope that one of the bars offers us a paying gig?

Yep. Suckered fo sho. I don't know how the bars in your neck of the woods work, but around here, a show gets booked at a bar as an entire bill. The bars don't want the hassle of lining up the opening acts and the headliner (almost sounds silly talking about headliners in a bar gig). They pay for a whole show. If the tribute band is handling the cash, they need to be paying out.

ogrossman · #3 12-01-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtybob

...they need to be paying out.

Something more than gas money?

TuckLM · #4 12-01-2007, 02:10 AM

I used to play free openers for all kinds of concerts. They keep telling you that it's good exposure. That kind of exposure never paid off and I quit doing it.

If you really feel that doing a free concert is a good idea, be very clear that you'll only do it once or that you'll do it only if they will book you right then for another show at your asking price. If you are dealing with reputable people, they will be more than willing to pay you. Otherwise, you really don't want to do business with them. If you go out again for free, you're just getting good exposure as a sucker.

One of the reasons musicians get paid so poorly is that we will often take it, or worse, we will work for nothing at all. Why should they pay you when they can get someone to do it cheap or free? Every time any of us work cheap or free, it diminishes us all.

We are in business for ourselves and need to consider ourselves as self-employed. Ask yourself, is there any kind of day job you would go to that didn't pay? Why should this be any different?

Stay smart and recognize that what you do has value.

stuonbass · #5 12-01-2007, 02:12 AM

Let find some other suckers

ogrossman · #6 12-01-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuckLM

... recognize that what you do has value.

The band has been together for about five years and we make between $500 and $1000 for a nights work but it's been mostly out in the boonies. We're hoping to break into some of the nicer, bigger bars in and around town and play a little more often.

Samie · #7 12-01-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogrossman

We've been the opening act a couple times in the past month for a tribute band that's pretty popular here in the Upper Midwest. At the first gig the house sound man knows us real well and he got us $200. We didn't make anything at the second gig; not even gas money. Now they're asking us to open for them again and I'm wondering if we should expect to get payed something? Or should we just keep opening for these guys and hope that one of the bars offers us a paying gig?

money issues: always up front.

Just ask for it up front. Have a target price in mind, and a minimum. Dont be afraid, if they cant pay you, they will tell you. After that you can decide if you play or not, but put a price on your show. Be realistic and flexible.

they: Can u guys play friday.
YOu: Sure, u know, we are getting so many good reviews, we are thinking about getting some studio time. Maybe you can give like $200 for fridays gig. Its for a good cause. (note: if you are an amateur, its good to make up something noble, it works like a charm)

they: We are kind of on a tight budget, you know. (they will resist, its not easy)
You: Ok, lets do this, we get the next 4 opening acts, for a global of $500 plus gas money. (what ever combination, be concrete, once a month; every other friday; )

It wont be easy, keep negotiations, and try to get something, what ever. Be flexible, if you get nothing at all and its a good gig, learn from your mistakes, be humble and play the gig.

Low paying gigs if the are a regular thing, can be quite worth it, on the long run.

**bassybill** · #8 12-01-2007, 02:43 AM

This goes well with the other current thread about the value of musicianship.

You should ask to be paid what you feel is a fair rate for the job. But don't be surprised if some jerks come along who are willing to do it for free and you end up losing the gig. But in that case it sounds like you're not losing much anyway.

ogrossman · #9 12-01-2007, 02:46 AM

Thanks all for the good advice. It will be good input at band practice tomorrow.

morf · #10 12-01-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogrossman

Something more than gas money?

Of course. You have been asked to perform, you deserve to get paid for your work, period.

Febs · #11 12-01-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuckLM

I used to play free openers for all kinds of concerts. They keep telling you that it's good exposure. That kind of exposure never paid off and I quit doing it.

Exactly right. The only gigs that usually come from the exposure you get from playing free gigs are more free gigs.

**bassybill** · #12 12-01-2007, 07:52 AM

^^^^^^ Too true, in my experience.

derrico1 · #13 12-01-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samie

money issues: always up front.

+1 If you don't negotiate for your piece up front, you'll end up washing the dishes while everyone else gets the pie.

punkbassistfc · #14 12-01-2007, 08:16 AM

How many people can this gig bring in? What level are you guys at? What level are they at? These are all things to factor in before you decide on the show.

ogrossman · #15 12-01-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkbassistfc

How many people can this gig bring in? What level are you guys at? What level are they at? These are all things to factor in before you decide on the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogrossman

The band has been together for about five years and we make between $500 and $1000 for a nights work but it's been mostly out in the boonies. We're hoping to break into some of the nicer, bigger bars in and around town and play a little more often.

The tribute band is playing the better rock clubs in town and filling them up pretty well. We have a pretty good following and can fill the small bars in our area away from town.

punkbassistfc · #16 12-01-2007, 08:49 AM

Ok, do you sell a lot of merch? Is the show your only source of income from the night? Do you have cd's? If you think you think that you can benifit from this type of exposure then I would do it.

ogrossman · #17 12-01-2007, 09:35 AM

Yeah, we have CDs, want to buy one?

But I can't see how we could sell enough of them at a gig to make up for not being payed.

The more I hear from you guys the more I think we should be asking them for 5% or 10% of what they're getting.

Curtybob · #18 12-01-2007, 09:56 AM

In all honestly, if they are playing decent clubs and getting some attendance, they can afford you. Well, unless they are stupid and are playing for next to free just to get the gig.

IanStephenson · #19 12-01-2007, 09:57 AM

Are the gigs ticketed/above average cover charge?

The local places round here which have big tribute bands are charging about $20 a ticket. The support band plays for free, but gets 25 tickets (or more for supporting a less well known band where the tickets are worth less). Thats $500 face value if you can sell them, or you can discount them/give them away if you want.

I think its a fair system - at the worst you have some tickets to give away to your regular fans, as a reward for turning out to see you at other venues. They get to see you on a bigger stage, and you know you've got an audience routing for you.

It's not actually "costing" anyone anything other than in the accounts. If the place is packed then they maybe could have sold those tickets, but the're making cash on drinks sales to you fans anyway, so everyone wins.

Most importantly you are getting SOME recognition that you're working, even if its not cash. Provided the gig is good exposure, at a venue you want to play, then it's an OK deal.

However if its a sucky gig, and you're not getting exposure, then hold out for cash...

Ian

ogrossman · #20 12-01-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

The support band plays for free, but gets 25 tickets

Wow, that's a great idea. Maybe we could get all our friends into the show for free. I'll look into that.