Are we being suckered?

[Joe Nerve]

Tough spot.

If you're a cover band, then I don't think you should have ever played for free. It sends out a pretty clear message that you don't value yourself, and they'll pick up on it. If you're willing to play for free that means you're not getting decent paying gigs (or you'd be playing somewhere else), and if other clubs don't want to hire you then whoever books at this place is going to feel you're "less than" what they could be getting. Whether that's a conscious or subconscious thought, I believe it'll be there.

If it's an original band, then that's a different story. While it sucks and is seemingly unfair, it's the law of the land. Cover bands get paid, original bands are either grateful for the exposure they get or they draw their own crowd and then get paid. Clubs aren't there to make artists famous. They're there to make money, and if a cover/tribute band is bringing them 200 people then that band deserves to make the money. If an original band brings 3 people... well, why should the bar dish anything out. If on the other hand you're bringing down craploads of people - then you're nuts if you're playing for free. But I'm not sensing that's the case.

[cb56]

I just don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm old. (in my 50's) But when we book a gig, 99.9% of the time we are the only band playing. We discuss a set price (usually $100 per band member) play the gig (usually 3-4 hours), collect our money and go home. It's been that way ever since I first started playing gigs as a kid.(well not the $100 per player part. It was more like $35-$50)
Nowadays the younger bands hardly ever play out (good for us old guys), only play a 1 hour set (consisting of mostly bad originals) there is usually 2,3 or 4 bands playing the gig and everybody goes home with little or no money.
When did things change and why is it still possible for us oldsters to still get plenty of work playing 4 hour gigs for decent pay?
Oh yeah btw, my band aslo does originals. We usually play about a half dozen of them during the course of the gig. The folks that follow the band really like that.

[Jim Breece]

Question about "hoping" the bar will offer you a money gig: you've made contact with whoever books the place, given them a cd and any promo you've got, expressed an interest in playing other gigs there, etc etc, yes?

[punkbassistfc]

Originally Posted by cb56

I just don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm old. (in my 50's) But when we book a gig, 99.9% of the time we are the only band playing. We discuss a set price (usually $100 per band member) play the gig (usually 3-4 hours), collect our money and go home. It's been that way ever since I first started playing gigs as a kid.(well not the $100 per player part. It was more like $35-$50)
Nowadays the younger bands hardly ever play out (good for us old guys), only play a 1 hour set (consisting of mostly bad originals) there is usually 2,3 or 4 bands playing the gig and everybody goes home with little or no money.
When did things change and why is it still possible for us oldsters to still get plenty of work playing 4 hour gigs for decent pay?
Oh yeah btw, my band aslo does originals. We usually play about a half dozen of them during the course of the gig. The folks that follow the band really like that.

You play half a dozen originals in a 4 hour set lol? The reason why your getting paid is because you are playing COVERS for the remainder of your set. I know a lot of people that play 4 hour sets and the band walks out with $2000 Australian.

Bad originals? Thats a bit general and cocky.

Hardly ever play out lol? Maybe not at a senior citizen club. But there are millions of bands trying to geta a cut of the small originals market.

No offense mate but you are being disrespectful to all the young members on the board who are not "oldstars" and play 6 originals in a 4 hour set but choose to play 10 originals in one hour.

[IanStephenson]

Don't think he was disrespectfull - a bit short maybe, but he does have a point...

Most of our gigs are 2x1hour sets (UK licensing laws make it that way), and we get about $80 a man, cash agreed in advance (all covers). One of the venues in town that would have been perfect for us 5 years ago re-invented itself as "live music venue'. What this means is they now put four bands a night on (40 minute sets), each playing for a cut of the door (most likely about $400 in total if you PACK the place [its small and the cover is low] - more like $150 most nights). Before they were a "live msuic venue" they put one band on, and payed them. We looked into playing there, and they told us to go find two other bands to share the cash with. Plenty of bands will play there as it still has some cred from the old days (it was physically bigger then too, but they turned half of it into a winebar).

We took a walk - there are still plenty of bars round here that will pay us.

Ian

[cb56]

Not meaning to be disrespectful, just calling it as I see it. Most of the under 30 bands around here walk around with the rock star attitude with there noses up in the air (cover tunes! Not me!) but NEVER GIG!
Hey that's cool, more gigs & pay for me and I have yet to play an old folks home. Usually night clubs and in the summer most of the fairs and festivals in my area. Usually with the "too good to play covers" folks out in the audience putting us down. We just grin at them, rock their asses off and collect our pay and continue on. As far as the share of the small originals market, our CD sold out and one song went to #1 on the old mp3.com charts. Not big time but no laughing matter either.

Originally Posted by punkbassistfc

You play half a dozen originals in a 4 hour set lol? The reason why your getting paid is because you are playing COVERS for the remainder of your set. I know a lot of people that play 4 hour sets and the band walks out with $2000 Australian.

Bad originals? Thats a bit general and cocky.

Hardly ever play out lol? Maybe not at a senior citizen club. But there are millions of bands trying to geta a cut of the small originals market.

No offense mate but you are being disrespectful to all the young members on the board who are not "oldstars" and play 6 originals in a 4 hour set but choose to play 10 originals in one hour.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by ogrossman

We've been the opening act a couple times in the past month for a tribute band that's pretty popular here in the Upper Midwest. At the first gig the house sound man knows us real well and he got us $200. We didn't make anything at the second gig; not even gas money. Now they're asking us to open for them again and I'm wondering if we should expect to get payed something? Or should we just keep opening for these guys and hope that one of the bars offers us a paying gig?

Do you feel like you're getting fair value for your work? If not you're being suckered. Feel like you're being suckered? You're being suckered.

[AveryHorton]

Focus on benefits and results... in music and in life.

WHAT RESULT DO YOU WANT?

WHAT IS THE BENEFIT IN PLAYING FOR FREE?

[punkbassistfc]

Originally Posted by cb56

Not meaning to be disrespectful, just calling it as I see it. Most of the under 30 bands around here walk around with the rock star attitude with there noses up in the air (cover tunes! Not me!) but NEVER GIG!
Hey that's cool, more gigs & pay for me and I have yet to play an old folks home. Usually night clubs and in the summer most of the fairs and festivals in my area. Usually with the "too good to play covers" folks out in the audience putting us down. We just grin at them, rock their asses off and collect our pay and continue on. As far as the share of the small originals market, our CD sold out and one song went to #1 on the old mp3.com charts. Not big time but no laughing matter either.

You are missing the whole point. It's not whether your originals are good. Its that you get payed to play covers. Not originals. And I agree with you about the rockstar attitudes, they are everywhere, but they are the ones that get no where anyway because they burn more bridges that they could ever cross before getting a chance.

[AlembicPlayer]

paper work
performance agreement
in writing


nuff said

[smogg]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

paper work
performance agreement
in writing


nuff said

+1 no pay, no play

[Moe Monsarrat]

It's hard to get much for what you've been giving away. Ask that gal on the corner.

[lonote]

I think it is always a bad idea to play for free (with the exception of bona fide charity events where you receive a receipt for your services as a charitable donation). There is no doubt you are being played. If you want money, ask for it. If they agree, get it in writing. If they don't agree or refuse to put in writing, walk away. There is a difference between worthless and priceless.

[gig-getter]

and remind him about the $200 he paid you the time before last (name the month rather than say "time before last"). Tell him you've been getting some pretty good quality work since then and ask whether he thinks he could get that figure up a little for the next show.

Suggest your target price. Even if you just nudge them up to $300 dollars you've got them moving in the right direction. If he accepts this, you could try to secure multiple future bookings by telling him you're starting to get booked up elsewhere does he want to firm up on additional dates now while you're still available...

[DWBass]

Don't you dare do that gig for free (or for little money)!

[eotpr]

I have been playing gigs since I was 15 and I have only done 2 free ones. That is 2 too many. BTW I am 51 now.