"We need to cut back on the number of gigs."

[Dkerwood]

Gah, it's finally come up again. The old "we need to cut back on the number of gigs" line.

Our drummer is a school teacher, and is starting this year at a new school after several years at a different district.

Our next gig is Friday night (a week from today) and school will have just started. We're trying to find time for rehearsal, but we're all really busy. I got a voicemail from him saying that he can't be at Tuesday's rehearsal because of his new job (I totally understand), but then he says we need to cut back on the number of gigs we play, especially ones for free. Huh?

To clarify, this is our ONLY August gig. We played 2 gigs in July, and we'll have 2 or 3 in September. My goal is 40 gigs for the year, but I usually do 6 or 7 within a two week span and then do about once a month for a while. It's been a full month since we played out last. How is that "too many gigs"? And as far as "free gigs"... well, our last gig WAS unpaid, but it was opening for a national act, and the only reason that we didn't get any money is because it was poorly attended and the venue didn't make any money after paying the headliner. The last gig before THAT was playing in the drummer's hometown, three hours away, for a bunch of drunk cowboys. FOR FREE.

So I call him back and leave him a voicemail, reminding him that I clear every gig with him before I book it, and that I make every effort to make every gig pay the bills. In fact, I've raised our rates, so now we're making twice our normal rate. Speaking of which, I say, we've been invited to a church 2 hours away to play a show, and they're offering THREE TIMES our normal rate. Yes, I know it's a pain to drive so far on a school night, but we could really use the cash (and the band fund could use another deposit).

He leaves me a voicemail today (he works days, I work nights, FYI) saying that although it's a lot of money, he doesn't "know about playing gigs on a school night"... In his defense, he does usually go to bed fairly early.

I don't know. The rational part of me says that he's probably just stressed about the new job and having to start over with a new school and new students. He wants to do his best and impress his colleagues and the administration. And I totally understand and respect that. But to poo poo a gig simply because it's a school night? That's not like him.

I may just offer to haul everything in my van - including drums - so that he can bail as soon as we hit the last chord and get to bed. Bassist and I will tear down, no big deal. Actually, it will be her 18th birthday that night, so I don't even know if she'll want to play the gig. Haven't been able to get in touch with her (she's been on vacation).

I dunno. I figure that I work Friday and Saturday nights, but we still play Friday and Saturday night gigs. I just have to ask off. But he can't play a gig that might lose him an hour of sleep but put some bucks in his pocket? I'm starting to question his commitment, and I hate that.

Sage advice?

[guy n. cognito]

Can't say that I blame the guy. If your gigs are like mine, they end no earlier than 10:00, and most don't end till later. With tear down and drive home, it could easily be 12:00 before you get home. Add a 2 hour drive time to the list and it could easily be worse. It's hard to work all day (especially with kids) on just a few hours sleep.

To be perfectly blunt, I think this guy has his priorities in order: real job (that pays the bills) first, all hobbies come next. If this guy has a real job, he's probably lost the desire to "make it," and therefore, is probably not as tolerant of late nights and long hours for no pay.

PS: Why do you take gigs that are hours away for FREE?

[vindy500]

tell him he can just go home straight after and he doesnt have to worry about tear down, just this once

[badstonebass]

I totally question his dedication.

You can sleep when you are dead.

What's one late night?

If you cannot hang you should not be in the music business....period.

Sounds like you need some new bandmates. Do it sooner not later.

I do NOT however play FREE gigs.....except the rare "benefit". Then only for VERY close friends.

[sb69coupe]

Sounds to me like you're not all on the same page. If the bassist is an 18 year old, you work weekend nights, and the drummer is a school teacher, you're coming from pretty different "places" in life. If he's putting in long hours getting started at a new school, the thought of a 4 hour round trip during the week for a gig is not something he'd look forward to.

Does he need the extra cash from gigging to make ends meet? I seem to recall from your other posts that you guys don't clear much other than enough to cover expenses. Not a slam, just an honest question. If he's a school teacher full-time and doesn't need the extra cash, I totally see why he's not willing to impact his weekday job in that way.

You pretty much need to get everyone to agree on a level of gigging that is desirable and acceptable. If an agreement can't be reached, then folks need to be up front and do what is in their own best interest.

[Dkerwood]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Can't say that I blame the guy. If your gigs are like mine, they end no earlier than 10:00, and most don't end till later. With tear down and drive home, it could easily be 12:00 before you get home. Add a 2 hour drive time to the list and it could easily be worse. It's hard to work all day (especially with kids) on just a few hours sleep.

To be perfectly blunt, I think this guy has his priorities in order: real job (that pays the bills) first, all hobbies come next. If this guy has a real job, he's probably lost the desire to "make it," and therefore, is probably not as tolerant of late nights and long hours for no pay.

PS: Why do you take gigs that are hours away for FREE?

This isn't as bad as all that. We'd be done playing by 8, 8:30 at the latest. He could leave without tearing down this time, so he'd be home before 11. In fact, if we keep the original start time of 6:30 (I mentioned to the venue that it might be difficult for the drummer to get up there by 6:30, getting out of school at 3:30), he'd be home before 10...

FWIW, I haven't taken an "hours away" gig for a very long time, except the gig in the drummer's hometown, which 2/3 of us didn't want to do, but did anyway, as a favor for him (so he could show off a little for his old buddies). For me to put in the time and stress for a gig, it either has to be very local, high profile, a good cause, or pay well.

I'm probably jumping the gun here by posting before I talk to him (and not his voicemail). I might be able to tell him what I've said here and he'll relent. We're just at the point in our musical journey where I still have to ask almost everyone who hires us to do so... so it's nice to occasionally play for people who request us - especially for triple our normal fee.

Man, I completely agree with his priorities. Job and family comes first, and I've always believed that. But I would never ask HIM to ask for a day off of work (something which the other two of us do regularly). Heck, I don't even actively seek gigs that aren't on Friday nights. But when one drops into our lap - with people who WANT to hear us???

Well, I'd better call and talk to him directly. Hopefully we can work something out. I don't know many drummers in town, and especially none who have been so dedicated as ours has.

[spudmaster34]

As a student, I can personally attest to how obnoxious we can be, and on top of that, most of our parents are worse. Especially at the beggining of the school year, he can be expecting 4-5 calls from parents daily asking for favors, or asking stupid questions, or complaining about something or another. He needs his sleep more at the beggining of the year when he has to deal with more of that crap, once the parents mellow out and it gets down to 2-3 obnoxoius calls a week, then he will probably be more willing to do stuff.

[invader3k]

Well, my wife was a high school teacher until going back to grad school, and she'd usually be in bed by 10:30 and up before 6 AM so she could get to school on time after about a 20 minute commute, and do prep work (and usually having done grading and stuff the night before), so I can sympathize with the guy in question. He's probably pretty stressed with school just getting underway.

That said, if he can't make gigs that are available, I'd think it would be hard to keep him in the band. Also, you said this gig would get done around 8 or 8:30, and he could leave right after the gig? That seems pretty reasonable. Are you sure there aren't other issues going on? Maybe he's just not excited about the band anymore, etc...and using his job as an excuse not to play as much?

If you're against cutting him out of the band completely, maybe you could find at least a back up drummer, to fill in for gigs like this?

[msquared]

I'd agree with the backup drummer idea. And I really really agree with the idea of calling and talking to him instead of playing voice mail tag. This situation calls for some discussion.

He's not being unreasonable. What's more, he's being up front with you about his needs vs the band's needs. That's commendable of him and shows that he's interested in making things work. It's not what you want to hear, but it's better than if he got frustrated and quit out of the blue. If he's a good drummer and a good fit for the band personally, he's worth keeping around. Especially since this sounds like a temporary situation.

[Rattman]

"3 TIMES the normal fee?" Do what ya gotta do brother man!

Take that gig.. get a substitute and don't worry about the drummer..he made his choice..there will be other gigs that he can attend. I wouldn't think twice about stepping on his toes as you all DID do that free gig for his homies..enjoy the church gig.. you'll do great!!

[Sundogue]

We did that in our band recently...or should I say I demanded it.

We played 10 gigs in June, and with summer's end coming up fast and not having spent hardly any time with my family, I told the band to not book any more gigs than we already had in July (two gigs were already on the books).

We all have families, and all were in agreement that June was busier than we normally are. They know I am totally dedicated to the band, but if push came to shove, (between my family and the band), the band doesn't even come close to standing a chance. Not in any way possible.

Jobs come and go, so do hobbies, as well as bands. But family? I only bring up family (instead of work) as that has always been the big issue with bands I've been in. But a full time job is more important than a part time band. A person needs to establish priorities and it sounds like this guy has his priorities straight. And no one but him is going to know whether or not that gig is just too much to deal with or not.

Many musicians I've played with have had no concept of how "important" time with my family is. Especially if they had no kids. For some reason they thought I could easily make that time up (one obvious clue they didn't understand). Needless to say, I quit bands that thought the band was priority number one. It would take a touring band making tons of money to make me change my priorities, and even then, the situation would have to be ideal.

If your band is a part time thing, then you shouldn't really sweat the occassional missed gigs. Dedication to a band is one thing, but making a part time band that doesn't play out much (and does some gigs for free no less) some kind of top priority makes no sense at all.

Just talk it out. It ain't the end of the world no matter how this plays out.

[MarkMyWordsXx]

i dont get what hes doing in a band if he doesnt wanna play out. ask him if its a temp. thing and then maybe you guyes could just suck it up for a while.

the band i just joined recently reformed and they have 15-20 songs. we know about 6 of them as a whole but they refuse to gig becuase they keep saying were not tight enough yet. well thats great but im 18 and im going back to school, i dont need to sit in a rehersal space and pay for the room, gas, tolls(its over the bridge) etc. for a few months while they reassure themselvs that were 'tight enough'


if your not gunna gig whats the point?

[WillBuckingham]

Get a sub.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by MarkMyWordsXx

i dont get what hes doing in a band if he doesnt wanna play out. ask him if its a temp. thing and then maybe you guyes could just suck it up for a while.

the band i just joined recently reformed and they have 15-20 songs. we know about 6 of them as a whole but they refuse to gig becuase they keep saying were not tight enough yet. well thats great but im 18 and im going back to school, i dont need to sit in a rehersal space and pay for the room, gas, tolls(its over the bridge) etc. for a few months while they reassure themselvs that were 'tight enough'


if your not gunna gig whats the point?

The guy just asked to cut back, not stop altogether.

What's the point of gigging out if you are going to sound bad and embarass yourselves? Your band members have it right. If you gig and you suck, you won't be gigging much longer.

[Dkerwood]

Ok, well, we just talked it out, and after I explained all the details, he agreed to do the gig on the stipulation that we don't do anything like it again.

Honestly, if not for the money involved, I'd have said no right off the get go. After all, I have class or work in the morning, too. Heck, we have a gig Friday night that gets me back home probably around 11 or midnight... and then I have to be at work Saturday morning at 6:45. That's killer.

Nah, it was just what I thought, though. He was worried about making a good first impression in a new job, and doing what's necessary to make the job work. That's completely commendable. In fact, now it seems that he's excited to go up and play this town because he played it in a band when he was in high school.

I thought about the subbing idea, but I know that we wouldn't have time to do much rehearsal with a new guy, and since the music is all original with only 4 or 5 of the tunes on our CD or website... It might be hard to get a sub up and running.

If the opportunity comes up again, I might consider it, but for now, we'll take this gig and only this gig. I don't want to piss him off just so that we can make a few bills.

We will, however, need to discuss this fairly soon. I've been trying to book more and more gigs every year, hopefully to get to a point where we can let the band support us, partially or wholly. Two years ago (when the band formed), we played maybe a dozen shows altogether (personnel issues). Last year, we played about 20 shows (with 4 months off before the current drummer joined the band). This year, we're already at 26 and trying to hit 40 by the end of the year. I haven't determined the goal for next year yet, but I would hope that 60 wouldn't be out of the question, as long as we have a summer tour with at least 20 shows in it.

I do know that in May, I'll have finished with my second college degree (finally done with school for a while) and the bassist will have graduated high school. We'll be at a juncture that would accomodate taking a semester or more off to play fulltime, but only if we're all on the same page. I'm not sure that our drummer would be willing to do it, nor would I likely want him to, with his family and all.

Of course, if the opportunity comes up where we can play fulltime and it will support his family, I'm sure he'd bite at the chance. But to try and survive on the measley money a lot of full time touring bands make? Doubtful.

I dunno. I'm just rambling here. I'd just hate to see a lot of hard work and dedication hit a ceiling of "this is as far as I'm willing to go".

[Munjibunga]

I'd start looking for a sub drummer who could eventually evolve into the main drummer. I agree that your current drummer is not as committed to the band as you are, and I also agree that he has his priorities straight. My guess is that he'd be relieved to not have the pressure of gigging with his current job being what it is.

BTW, my priorities are family, job, band, in that order. But that doesn't mean I can't make occasional sacrifices in one to accommodate another.