Weird band situation

UncleMattGuy · #1 04-19-2011, 12:05 PM

I'm doing an all original gig. We rehearsed the act all winter and are starting do do shows. Singer is an awesome singer and writes great material, drummer is good, one guitar player is fine, nothing special, but the other guitar player is awful.
I really dig the singer and the material but I am embarrassed to be on stage with the guitar player. How would you proceed?

jgroh · #2 04-19-2011, 12:08 PM

Confront him with constructive criticism or leave

sykes of christ · #3 04-19-2011, 12:11 PM

Kick him out, find someone new. If he isn't pulling his weight why is he in the band?

glenb73 · #4 04-19-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMattGuy

I'm doing an all original gig. We rehearsed the act all winter and are starting do do shows. Singer is an awesome singer and writes great material, drummer is good, one guitar player is fine, nothing special, but the other guitar player is awful.
I really dig the singer and the material but I am embarrassed to be on stage with the guitar player. How would you proceed?

During shows, turn down his amp so he is barely audible...

perfektspace6 · #5 04-19-2011, 12:13 PM

Goal = Find another guitar player.

You need to build a coalition. Make sure to get a feel for how other members think about the situation. If they concur then it's a no-brainer. If they are unsure or brush your concerns off, then it's not going to go well for you. Don't make it personal in any way. Make you case based on the facts.

If he is the best friend with the singer or drummer you are probably screwed. If that is the case I would leave. One bad player can ruin a good band. You will be constantly frustrated and bitter.

tdub0199 · #6 04-19-2011, 12:16 PM

Is he not doing his homework for the band or is he just a bad guitarist in general?

JoZac21 · #7 04-19-2011, 12:21 PM

Talk to the rest of the band... if all the others are good musicians like you say and have good ears, they're all probably already on the same page as you.

UncleMattGuy · #8 04-19-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdub0199

Is he not doing his homework for the band or is he just a bad guitarist in general?

I come from a background of playing with shredders, this is more of a punkpop thing so I don't expect Yngwie. He plays off key and improvises instead of writing leads. So it's catchy hook heavy songs with atonal, off key noodling. I am just bad at politics and I hate to throw out the baby with the bathwater by quitting. Nobody is particularly involved socially.

Tampabass · #9 04-19-2011, 12:32 PM

what's so weird about that?

jk. perfektspace is right - if the bad guitarist is really tight with the others, then your options may be limited.

If they're on the same page as you, then ... a chicken way for all of you to do this, and help the bad guitarist save face: You leave and/or the band "calls it quits." Wait a month or longer. Reassemble but don't invite the bad guitarist back into the fold. Yes, eventually he'll figure it out. But he saves face, and confrontations are avoided.

Or just leave, tell the others (not the bad guitarist) why you're leaving, and see how it pans out. They can either ditch him to keep you, or keep him and find another bassist. Either way, you'd have your answer.

JoZac21 · #10 04-19-2011, 12:39 PM

"Citing artistic differences
the band broke up in may
and in june reformed without me
and they'd got a different name
i nuked another grandma's apple pie
and hung my head in shame"

- Ben Folds Five...

Not my favorite artist, but one of my favorite lyrics... and words we can all relate to.

MatticusMania · #11 04-19-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMattGuy

I come from a background of playing with shredders, this is more of a punkpop thing so I don't expect Yngwie. He plays off key and improvises instead of writing leads. So it's catchy hook heavy songs with atonal, off key noodling. I am just bad at politics and I hate to throw out the baby with the bathwater by quitting. Nobody is particularly involved socially.

Are you playing with my old guitarist? He was a great guy, but not so great guitarist. He had good ideas, but "atonal, off key noodling" describes his playing style to a tee. It worked in the live improv rock band so long as

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenb73

During shows, turn down his amp so he is barely audible...

But then people would complain "we cant hear the guitar" Often I would think "its probably better that you cant"

UncleMattGuy · #12 04-19-2011, 12:51 PM

I guess I'll just offer to play the gigs already booked and explain to the singer why I'm quitting. A Thin Lizzy tribute act sounds like more fun to me anyway.

HeadyVan Halen · #13 04-19-2011, 01:01 PM

1.) Arrange for someone to steal his equipment.
2.) Don't let the person who snatched it sell it on ebay, craigslist etc.
3.) Go to rough section of town, sell gear at different pawn shops.
4.) Meet at Hooters and buy the first 3 rounds. Slap each other on the back while someone texts guitar player about how sorry you all are.

hrodbert696 · #14 04-19-2011, 01:25 PM

Just one additional factor that occurs to me is relative seniority. If you're the new guy and all these others had been playing together for a while, then your choices are whether you yourself will stay or go. I wouldn't feel that I had the place to get the band to kick this guy out until I'd been around a while and proven myself. If you both came in at the same time or you've been there longer than him, you have more leverage to say he needs to up his game or look for another band.

In the meantime, you can make polite, constructive comments and see if he improves. If he does, problem solved. If he doesn't, it may start becoming apparent to the rest of the band (or to himself, for that matter) that he's not cutting it.

But if you can't get him to improve or leave, your only choices are whether it's so bad that you need to go find another project or if you can grit your teeth and put up with him for now.

UncleMattGuy · #15 04-25-2011, 06:49 AM

Ok update time. I sent a long email to the singer ( it's her act) detailing my concerns. I was ready to say " thanks for the memories" but I was pleasantly surprised that she also had the same problem with the guitar player.
The solution we will try is for she and I to compose short, melodic leads and have the guy learn them note for note, no improv, no noodling. I suspect he will be insulted and quit but either way it will be an improvement!

Floyd Eye · #16 04-25-2011, 06:51 AM

Cut the brake lines on his car.

Handyman · #17 04-25-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMattGuy

The solution we will try is for she and I to compose short, melodic leads and have the guy learn them note for note, no improv, no noodling. I suspect he will be insulted and quit but either way it will be an improvement!

Well, it looks like the situation will be solved one way or the other. Best of luck.

ledyard · #18 04-25-2011, 07:49 AM

i wouldn't get into the situation unless they cut him. I had the same deal a few years ago. real good metal band wanted me to play bass. The drummer was a long time friend of mine and a phenom with sticks in his hand. The singer was awsome, the one guitarist was good enough and the other was like 28 and had just started playing 4 mos prior! I was like ar you serious? he cant even hear that he's out of tune during a song? let alone tune it himself!! No one else commented either. I'm like are you guys deaf?
They wanted to know what I thought. I said theres no way I will play with this dude. I dont have the time or patience for a noob. Yes I was a noob once and a vet took me under his wing. But that was a cover band. Not a band wanting to get a deal. I told them can him and I will play guitar and you can find another bassist. Apparently he was a real cool guy and they didnt wanna do that. So I said buh bye...you wont last a year. Guess what....

trainofthought · #19 04-28-2011, 12:41 PM

I've had a similar situation with my band.

We basically formed the coalition (eveeeentually), confronted the weaker member, and made a pseudo ultimatum. We made sure not to say "pick it up or you're gone bro." More to the effect of "realize what we're all investing in this, you need to do the same." He's shown serious improvement. I suppose you need to gauge whether or not this guy even has a future in music, does he have an ounce of skill? Could he get to where you need him to be? Soonish?

You've got to also keep in mind that getting 5 people on the same page that can live with one another is not something you want to throw away either. You can grow musically, but sometimes not socially.

Your plan sounds pretty good, but the conversation may come up! GL

Muzoid · #20 04-28-2011, 12:46 PM

Although 'show time' is probably not the best time for a member change, starting the process might be the way to go.

This should have been done way back at the beginning of winter (rehearsal stage)...but if he affects the overall sound greatly...mention it to the soundman to keep him low in the mix, but a good soundman will be way ahead of you on that anyways.

If he hasn't improved after a winter of rehearsals, chances are he's not going to improve anytime soon...therefore acknowledging the 'weakest link' theory.

Being uncomfortable on stage and/or embarrassed, never makes for a fun night IMO.

"You're Fired" love Donald Trump