we're so professional!

[jomahu]

a lot of the threads i see here are about bandmembers who fail to buck up. which makes me think:

1. bassists are extremely professional musicians
2. guitarists/drummers/singer/kazoo players are on other forums complaining about what slackers we are.

obvious bias aside, what do you think? personally, after 25 years of playing, i've only met one bass player who was a stoner-slacker (not that one affects the other).

[Dave Muscato]

Most "musicians" are slackers. It goes with the territory of playing music as your job. People get into music as a career for the wrong reasons - they are attractive and they don't have to work at it, it's fun, they get girls & free drugs, it's a romantic way to spend your time...

However, if earning an income (not just spending your time) is what you're after, then you'll see a lot more professional attitudes come out, regardless of the instrument.

Some instruments take more discipline than others. For example, a professional singer worth his salt tends not to drink or smoke, if he knows what's good for him. Horn players will not smoke because of lung-power issues. Any instrument that is one of the traditional "reader" instruments (bass, horns, piano, etc) is going to have some more serious people along with it than one of the more traditional "by ear" instruments (voice, guitar).

Anyway, it's all a bell curve. You will have a lot of musicians that are flakey, some who are total flakes, and some who are downright professional.

I think that the only reason you will see fewer failed/unprofessional bassists out there than guitarists is because bassists are in higher demand, because really, "who wants to play the bass?" If you're not making money at it anyway (because you are unprofessional), you might as well be a starving-artist guitar player. There tends to be a lot of available work for bassists, because there are not as many of us compared to guitar players, so the ones who stay in business are the ones who are 1) good and 2) have a professional attitude (are easy to get along with, show up on time, don't do drugs, etc).

Take into account the cost of a good bass rig, which is about double the cost of a good guitar rig IMO/IME (I used to play guitar), and you further have an incentive for a bassist to be as professional as possible.

You don't see too many flaky double bassists for the same reason - it's a difficult instrument to learn, and a flake isn't going to have the money for a $5k+ instrument.

Also, the role of the bass in a band context lends itself more to a personality of someone who is less flaky. A bassist needs to be solid, steady, and reliable - factors that manifest themselves in personality as much as performance on the instrument.

Take this in contrast to lead guitarists, for example

I've known many slacker bassists. They're out there. The unprofessional ones just tend to give up music, though, rather than playing at home, as guitarists tend to do. A bass is a band instrument and if you're not in a band (or do sessions, which a slacker bassist needn't worry about), it's not as much fun as being a guitarist and sitting at home. YMMV.

[Double Agent]

#2 - there is a reason people have a misconception about bass players not knowing anything about music, including the ability to play their own instrument. I have known a few good bass players, besides myself, who are always prepared, keep their gear in gig-ready shape, practice on a regular basis, and can play more than just the root. But, I have seen dozens of bands where the bass player was definately the weak link in an otherwise solid lineup. There are tons of slacker bassists out there. However, they are probably not inclined to get on message boards about playing bass. I think the majority of TBers are probably pretty professional dudes who aren't just in it for booze and chicks.

[Phalex]

I represent that! Get away from my booze and my chicks!

[grovest]

I think there are a lot of unprofessional bassists, actually. I believe this is because many of them were too undisciplined, uncreative, or unintelligent to play the guitar (or trumpet or piano or x), but think of bass as being an easy instrument that still has some rock star cache.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by grovest

I believe this is because many of them were too undisciplined, uncreative, or unintelligent to play the guitar. . .

Hmm. Does history really tell of anyone being too dumb and undisciplined to play guitar? (As opposed, say, to realizing that playing like Alan Holdsworth is out of reach.)

I know terrific pro and hobbiest guitarists who are bright and dedicated; but in some circles, for guitarists dumb and undisciplined are cardinal virtues rather than disqualifications.

[jomahu]

Originally Posted by grovest

I think there are a lot of unprofessional bassists, actually. I believe this is because many of them were too undisciplined, uncreative, or unintelligent to play the guitar (or trumpet or piano or x), but think of bass as being an easy instrument that still has some rock star cache.

that's a valid point. i guess i was thinking more of actual "bass players" - i.e. people who play bass because they love it/have a connection to it - as opposed to the "failed instrumentalists" that you describe.

[The Golden Boy]

I'm in it for the booze and chicks.

[-Kramer-]

Can't we be professional AND in it for the booze and chicks?

[grovest]

Originally Posted by jomahu

that's a valid point. i guess i was thinking more of actual "bass players" - i.e. people who play bass because they love it/have a connection to it - as opposed to the "failed instrumentalists" that you describe.

Cool... then yeah I agree with you and think there is a logical reason for it. In the main, a good bassist will play in a way to support the ensemble or feature vocal / soloist. To do that well, one would have to be content with 'supporting' duties, which requires taming ego and so on.... To accomplish that requires maturity and from there springs the professional attitude.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by -Kramer-

Can't we be professional AND in it for the booze and chicks?

Works for me!

[dvh]

Originally Posted by -Kramer-

Can't we be professional AND in it for the booze and chicks?

+1 You beat me to it!

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Also, the role of the bass in a band context lends itself more to a personality of someone who is less flaky. A bassist needs to be solid, steady, and reliable - factors that manifest themselves in personality as much as performance on the instrument.

Agree. Certainly describes me.

[Vic Winters]

I try to be as professional as I can be. That includes having decent gear, knowing my parts, playing them to the best of my ability and sticking to the practice schedule. I've been in bands with people who care, and those who don't. It really burns me up when people can't adhere to those 4 things. Hell I go above and beyond by providing the practice space and PA.

Here's a little horror story of my previous band that hasn't practiced since July. All of us are college students who live at home.

Guitarist 1: Used a Drive 2x5 combo amp which is still at my house. Relies on everyone else for transportation.

Guitarist 2: Has a B52 4x12, but no amp so he borrowed my Crate GFX1200H which I still haven't seen.

Drummer: Didn't have their own kit. Used the kit from the drummer of my other band who was/wasn't/was...etc... going to be the singer for the band. Didn't help with tear down after our only show. Has no clue on how to adjust or assemble a drum kit.

Aside from their lack of gear, they have no motivation to play or practice. And on the rare occurrence we did practice, I'd spend at least half the time waiting around for them to remember the stuff they had written. And the sad thing is, they know people in other bands who get consistent gigs, have toured, recorded and could get us on the bill for their local shows. If I had those connections I'd be jumping at the opportunity.

Music is supposed to be fun. But when you have to constantly put up with this stuff, it just isn't anymore. Which is sad because I really enjoyed the music we played together.

[Rattlehead]

Vic Winters, I feel your pain. I was in a band for 5 years that was similar in many respects (just not as bad) to what you describe. They were great at first but the last 2 years just lost the heart for it. The only problem is they didn't have the guts to just disband or quit, so they sort of led the lead guitarist and I into thinking they were still serious, when in fact they were not. The band was very low on their list of priorities - below drinking and partying. It eventually got to the point where the lead guitar and I, as we were the only ones scheduling the jam sessions at this point, decided that the band was pretty much dead. We said we'd see what would happen if we simply didn't call the other members to schedule a jam session. We never receive ONE phone call from any of the 3 other members.

I feel like I've wasted so much time in that band, that they held back my development as a musician by a lot by not being honest with us and just calling it quits 2 years ago.

Oh well. I learned from the experience. If scheduling jam sessions has become a difficult process, the band just doesn't care enough to be taken seriously, and that means quitting time. Some people aren't true to themselves and to others about this, but you should know when to quit something yourself.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

I'm in it for the booze and chicks.

I'm telling your wife. She gonna make you sell that
SWR SM900 for sure. She'll let you keep the beer, probably.

[Thor]

PS, re DAve Muscato's post.

I also think the bassist is the only one that bothers to
check the oil in the band van.

Re Vic Winters.
My guitar player has another band, His drummer in that
band doesn't use his own rig, uses the guitar players drums.
Bangs the crap out of them, the heads are toast. Has one
sound: Led Zeppelin. The guitar player has to buy him sticks,
this guy is such a loser. Yikes. And he can't even tune a head.

Re Rattlehead:

Same here, if I don't organize the jams, suggest dates,
send the emails, it doesn't happen. No emails, no calls. After a
month the drummer may call. I have dealt with this by having
3 different projects to support, that way I can play every week.
So you are not alone there.

[Double Agent]

I never said there anything wrong with booze and chicks. I enjoy both quite a bit. But, if there were no booze or chicks, I would still love to play bass. Thats all I was saying.

Booze and girlies are a really nice bonus though

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by Double Agent

I never said there anything wrong with booze and chicks. I enjoy both quite a bit. But, if there were no booze or chicks, I would still love to play bass. Thats all I was saying.

Booze and girlies are a really nice bonus though

+1
Having nice scenery while having a blast is quite a bonus.

They certainly aren't around when you're "woodshedding" and FINALLY really NAIL a part and/or sound. THAT is something in itself that cannot be replaced by booze & girlies.

And I've never had a bass walk out on me or file for the big "D" or drop financial bombs into my life(excepting when one succumbs to a GAS attack).

Back to topic:
It is very difficult to be a "slacker" bassist and play live shows. It WILL be seen by more than just band members and has a similar flavor(sour-ness) that a drummer who can't keep time does.

If you want to check YOUR musical slack, just set a Zoom H4 or similar device up at EVERY gig you play and listen to each one. You should hear minimal slack and drum-bass lock/drive.

[waffle puzzle]

IME generalizing, bassists tend to be more congenial, open minded, willing to be a team player, more organized, more reliable and more consistant.

Also, I've seen how bassists always seek out other bassists to hang out with and be sincerely interested in what you're saying, whilst the "lead" people like singers and guitarists could care less about you, but sure put on a good front.

Drummers are either unpredictably crazy or unusually introspective....

AGAIN, I am generalizing, and there are obvious exceptions....

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by grovest

I think there are a lot of unprofessional bassists, actually. I believe this is because many of them were too undisciplined, uncreative, or unintelligent to play the guitar (or trumpet or piano or x), but think of bass as being an easy instrument that still has some rock star cache.

Are you describing people who merely own/play bass, or people who feed their families as bassists?

I've known a lot of flakes in both camps during the 40 years I've been playing; those who don't conquer their personal demons usually seem to remove themselves from the game.