what is the best way to deal with a sloppy guitar player.

s_mcsleazy · #1 10-07-2011, 02:43 PM

i joined a band lately. nothing too big. we hope to gig fairly soon. its me and a guitar player at the moment. hes a good guitar player if he is just playing but he is also the bands singer and when he trys singing and playing even simple songs he has a fair bit of trouble. if he focuses too much on his playing his singing goes out of time and if he focuses too much on his singing his playing goes out of time.

anyone give me any tips on how to help him along?

senp5f · #2 10-07-2011, 02:58 PM

Simplify the guitar parts until the singing is good. When you're playing out in front of people, 99 percent of them -- basically everyone in the audience except other guitar players! -- are only going to care about the vocals and the groove. Luckily, as the bass player you can make sure the groove is good. Whatever happens, keep the beat!

Focus on the vocals and make the guitar parts simple but accurate. If all he can do while he sings is strum chords on the downbeat, so be it -- there is no shame in that whatsoever when you're just starting out!

Singing and playing at the same time is a little like a jigsaw puzzle or learning how to play a drum kit. With a drum kit, there are three things that can happen: the hand comes before the foot, the hand comes after the foot, or the hand and foot happen at the same time. Take the time to slowly and carefully sort out which is which, and you'll be fine. Same thing with playing and singing.

s_mcsleazy · #3 10-07-2011, 03:03 PM

thanks. ill sugest that to him

cableguy · #4 10-07-2011, 03:05 PM

^^^^^ This.

Or look for a singer and have the guitarist sing harmony.

electracoyote · #5 10-07-2011, 03:05 PM

We have a guitarist who has trouble with octaved funk lines. He always has another random note or two ringing in there, it just sounds horrible.

I tell him he needs to tighten it up and lose the blue notes.

Just that simple.

s_mcsleazy · #6 10-07-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cableguy

^^^^^ This.

Or look for a singer and have the guitarist sing harmony.

hes not into that idea. hes a big songwriter and dislikes the idea of someone other than him singing lyrics he wrote.

Gearhead17 · #7 10-07-2011, 03:08 PM

Does the singer/guitar guy know about this? Have you talked to him? Just get him one on one and talk to him. Tell him the truth and follow the advice from senp5f.

I rarely sing myself because I would rather focus on my bass playing. Doing both is one heck of a challenge. Especially when vocal lines are not always connected with bass parts.

s_mcsleazy · #8 10-07-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Does the singer/guitar guy know about this? Have you talked to him? Just get him one on one and talk to him. Tell him the truth and follow the advice from senp5f.

I rarely sing myself because I would rather focus on my bass playing. Doing both is one heck of a challenge. Especially when vocal lines are not always connected with bass parts.

yeah ive told him he can be a bit sloppy when combining the 2 and hes willing to work on it because he doesnt want to waste peoples time while gigging.

carlthegroover · #9 10-07-2011, 09:53 PM

A) Tell him to take some more guitar lessons

B) Tell him to take some more singing lessons

C) Tell him to practice guitar and singing more

D) Get a singer or another instrumentalist that can sing and play well at the same time

carlthegroover · #10 10-07-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

hes not into that idea. hes a big songwriter and dislikes the idea of someone other than him singing lyrics he wrote.

E) Tell him to be flexible, because if he cannot perform the way he likes, he should be openminded and let someone else sing. Ego trip much? Sorry but I had to say it.

Muzoid · #11 10-07-2011, 10:04 PM

Personally I would just move on.

He won't get better anytime soon, trust me.

He's your weak link, and that will be poison when you start to gig.

Walk away...don't look back.

Sorry to be harsh, but I won't work with hacks....there are tons of great players out there....find them.

bradjonesbass · #12 10-07-2011, 10:24 PM

If he's a songwriter, then you need a second (lead) guitar to play the more complicated parts while he strums and sings.

steveksux · #13 10-08-2011, 07:12 AM

Takes a long time to learn to sing and play well. While you're new(ish) at either or both, both require a certain amount of concentration to do right. And there will be problems on the parts when you need 60% of your concentration to get the guitar part right, and 60% of your concentration to get the vocal parts right.

He has to get comfortable with both parts so that he can do both easily. Also crucial to have him practice singing and playing along with a metronome. Because when he approaches that 100%+ concentration level trying to sing and play at the same time, he WILL start slowing down. And quite often on the parts that he can already do simultaneously he will speed up. He needs to be able to sing and play the parts at the same time, IN TEMPO if he wants anyone else to be able to play along with him.

Randy

stflbn · #14 10-08-2011, 07:24 AM

Solid Drummer and Bass player and just drag his sloppy arse along for the ride.

s_mcsleazy · #15 10-08-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzoid

Personally I would just move on.

He won't get better anytime soon, trust me.

He's your weak link, and that will be poison when you start to gig.

Walk away...don't look back.

Sorry to be harsh, but I won't work with hacks....there are tons of great players out there....find them.

thats is pretty harsh mate. hes still a good song writer and a good friend. but good luck with your "no hacks" policy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradjonesbass

If he's a songwriter, then you need a second (lead) guitar to play the more complicated parts while he strums and sings.

his parts arent uber complicated. hes more worried about trying to get his timing down while singing rather than trying to play like steve vai while singing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

Takes a long time to learn to sing and play well. While you're new(ish) at either or both, both require a certain amount of concentration to do right. And there will be problems on the parts when you need 60% of your concentration to get the guitar part right, and 60% of your concentration to get the vocal parts right.

He has to get comfortable with both parts so that he can do both easily. Also crucial to have him practice singing and playing along with a metronome. Because when he approaches that 100%+ concentration level trying to sing and play at the same time, he WILL start slowing down. And quite often on the parts that he can already do simultaneously he will speed up. He needs to be able to sing and play the parts at the same time, IN TEMPO if he wants anyone else to be able to play along with him.

Randy

thanks for the good advice.

Marko5657 · #16 10-08-2011, 03:55 PM

Sounds to me like he just needs to keep practicing, that’s all.

Boot Soul · #17 10-08-2011, 05:36 PM

I am really challenged by this too. But I remember reading in an interview with Sting, when he was asked how he could sing and play such contrapuntal bass lines, and he said that he just separated them and learned them really well as separate things before attempting to combine them. He said he would get the bass part so it would be second nature, then add the vocal when he had that together as well. (Or something like that....)

Of course, enormous talent and years of experience probably make this a much quicker process for him, than it would be for the majority of us!

punkinfantry · #18 10-08-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boot Soul

I am really challenged by this too. But I remember reading in an interview with Sting, when he was asked how he could sing and play such contrapuntal bass lines, and he said that he just separated them and learned them really well as separate things before attempting to combine them. He said he would get the bass part so it would be second nature, then add the vocal when he had that together as well. (Or something like that....)

Of course, enormous talent and years of experience probably make this a much quicker process for him, than it would be for the majority of us!

plus he had stewart copeland. just sayin'

steveksux · #19 10-08-2011, 06:19 PM

Wood chipper.

Randy

hans9 · #20 10-08-2011, 11:13 PM

record either video or just audio and evaluate together..ask him how he sounds like.. people usually respond better when things come from them..

after the playing the record and he admits you don't sound good, move to the next question
"how are we going to deal with this?"
come up with specific action plans

if he never admits that he sounds terrible in the record... that means he either doesn't know what good music is or tone deaf or he just has an attitude not geared to success.. leave that guitar player.. there are other better singer guitarist there..