What do you guys think of record labels?

[Kuchar]

Ok guys, I really need some advice right here. So my band played a gig at the Machine Shop last Saturday, which is a pretty reputable venue where I live and a lot of pretty big bands have played the place. Before the gig we talked to the owner of the club and asked him if we could possibly open for a band they had playing soon named Royal Bliss. He said he would take a listen and get back with us.

Afterwards, we talked to one of the employees and he asked us if we would like to come back and play another show at the Machine Shop with a couple other bands. We agreed and were pretty pumped to have been asked back. The owner also approached us and told us that he had called his brother (the other owner) and talked to him about that opening slot. He said it was booked but he would try to work something out to get us opening for a different spot.


Well, about an hour later someone approached our lead singer and asked if we were legally binded to anybody or if we had a band manager. Long Story short this guy tells us he works with a label named Paradise Records and they are interested in signing us. He gave us his number and told us when to call.

So, we called and the guy kind of laid down how the whole thing would work. He said would send us to a studio that costs $35 dollars and hour to record our album. He would front the money for 100 T-Shirts which he would receive $6 dollars for and we would receive $4, saying the shirts cost him $5 to buy.

He also said he could book us shows, but we would probably make little to no money since we are an original band and will most likely be playing with other bands. He said he would make money selling merch such as shirts and CDs.

SO.. one big turn off includes the fact that this label apparently has no website. At least not one we can find. This is pretty sketchy because if I owned a label and had the money to front out all this crap then I would have a decent website to at least try to promote the label and sell the music. He also asked to meet at OUR practice space, which is one of the members houses. I don't really like this idea, I'd rather meet someplace else.

All in all, I'm sure we would have to sign a contract that would pretty much shut down all future opportunity. And we would also most likely owe all the studio and t-shirt money to the label once it's all said and done.

So what do YOU guys think? What would you do? We are a local completely independent trio. The drummer is 17 years old and has no job. He is the younger brother of our lead singer and guitar player. Works at Wal-Mart and is 20 years old. I am 18 years old, work as a manager at KFC. For how old we are, we have a pretty good sound that seems to attract everybody to the stage wherever we play. We have recordings up on myspace that are of decent quality, but nothing compared to what we want.

I was hoping to get some type of opinions.

[SpamBot]

Get a lawyer before you sign anything. Have a SPECIALIZED (This is important) lawyer look over the contract. If you do that, there is no way you could get screwed. Well, at least by any fault of yours.
It is bad that there's no website, but if you don't sign ANYTHING until it's looked over, you'll be alright. They can't hurt you until you've signed something.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Kuchar

Long Story short this guy tells us he works with a label named Paradise Records and they are interested in signing us. He gave us his number and told us when to call.

So, we called and the guy kind of laid down how the whole thing would work. He said would send us to a studio that costs $35 dollars and hour to record our album. He would front the money for 100 T-Shirts which he would receive $6 dollars for and we would receive $4, saying the shirts cost him $5 to buy.

He also said he could book us shows, but we would probably make little to no money since we are an original band and will most likely be playing with other bands. He said he would make money selling merch such as shirts and CDs.

SO.. one big turn off includes the fact that this label apparently has no website. At least not one we can find. This is pretty sketchy because if I owned a label and had the money to front out all this crap then I would have a decent website to at least try to promote the label and sell the music.

All signs point to BS!!! BS meter is pegged in the red! Do yourself a favor and rent the movie "Great World Of Sound". Long story short, this is bogus--at worst a scam, at best an unprofessional and sheisty small-time deal which will not actually benefit you. If they don't have a website, and they want to meet at your place, then it's just a paper house, something where dude A pays dude B a commission to bring sucker bands into their recording studio and go halvsies on some merch. They are bottom-feeders. Do not sign any contracts with them.

[Kuchar]

That's kind of what I was thinking.

[Greyvagabond]

Yeah, major BS scent all over that thing. Ask for some references from other bands he's worked with. My guess is there aren't any bands who would give him a good reference, or ANY reference. Run. Run fast!!

[Jonyak]

You really don't need a label nowadays. just get out there.. talk to people, other bands, build contacts. its alot more work than just playing but you reap all the benefits.

if you want to do shirts, ask everyone from the band to pitch in and get them done.

[byebyejimmy]

definately sounds a bit suspect, but maybe worth a look. just don't sign anything unless you're absolutely sure it's a beneficial deal and don't let him pressure you into signing there and then with the old "sign now or never" tactic.

also something worth thinking about is... why does he want to meet at your rehearsal space? i may be being paranoid, but he could be scoping out your situation/ security with a view to robbing you blind. like i say i might be being paranoid, but you never know, there's plenty of scumbags out there.

[dido__15]

Don't blow him off straight away - every label has to start somewhere.

I speak as the owner of a very small UK based label with 2 artists.

Yeah, it's hard work.

I work around a full time job and every penny I earn goes into the label. I don't have time to make a website so I currently have a 5 minute thrown together website as I considered getting the CD's and merch out to sell at gigs more important. Sales generate revenue not the website.

Bottom line - Having no website doesn't mean they are a badly run company, they probably have other priorities.

Just make sure you check all the angles, go along to view the studio, have a long chat with the guy about what other bands/artists he has on the label, and the sort of revenue the deal has created for them. If you can talk to the artists even better.

At the end of the day if all the bases are covered and it's gonna make you money, it can hardly be a bad thing can it?

James

EDIT:: A final thought, if he asks for any money from you up-front then run a mile. If he's professional then all the risk should be on him.

[heath_r_91]

Now a label is basically for physical distribution of your cds.

You can buy full color printed shirts in quanitities of 100 for about $4.40 a piece, he isn't doing you any favors there.

Most likely a place that only charges $35/hr for recording isn't going to be top notch.

Overall it sounds like a crap deal. When signing into stuff like this you always need to ask yourself, what can they do for me that I can't do for myself? Obviously in this instane there is nothing the person can do for you that you can't already do for yourself. Just don't call him.

[Mr-Wunderful]

Originally Posted by Jonyak

You really don't need a label nowadays. just get out there.. talk to people, other bands, build contacts. its alot more work than just playing but you reap all the benefits.

if you want to do shirts, ask everyone from the band to pitch in and get them done.

Ditto. With resources like CD baby you have world wide distribution for your CD's. If you don't have local hook up for merch check out www.contagiousgraphics.com for stickers and t-shirts.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by dido__15

I speak as the owner of a very small UK based label with 2 artists.
I work around a full time job and every penny I earn goes into the label. I don't have time to make a website so I currently have a 5 minute thrown together website as I considered getting the CD's and merch out to sell at gigs more important. Sales generate revenue not the website.
Bottom line - Having no website doesn't mean they are a badly run company, they probably have other priorities.

Sorry, but with a hobby-level indie startup like yours, when a band signs a contract with you they are taking a major gamble that you will not screw them or waste their time and money. All you have to offer is your word, which may be solid as a rock from your perspective, but doesn't really count for anything from the perspective of a band looking to sign a contract with an organization that will help take their band to a higher level in the industry. Selling merch at gigs is something most bands can get a buddy to do for free drinks, or a girlfriend to do for nothing at all. What a "label" offers is distro to stores (and not just the ones in the neighborhood), national marketing, and industry contacts. Do you have any of that to offer? BTW I'm not trying to insult you or put down the great efforts and expense you go to, just putting this stuff in perspective.

Bottom line - having no website is just one of many signs that the so-called label the OP is talking about is a fly-by-night hobby at best or a scam at worst.

[dido__15]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Sorry, but with a hobby-level indie startup like yours, when a band signs a contract with you they are taking a major gamble that you will not screw them or waste their time and money. All you have to offer is your word, which may be solid as a rock from your perspective, but doesn't really count for anything from the perspective of a band looking to sign a contract with an organization that will help take their band to a higher level in the industry. Selling merch at gigs is something most bands can get a buddy to do for free drinks, or a girlfriend to do for nothing at all. What a "label" offers is distro to stores (and not just the ones in the neighborhood), national marketing, and industry contacts. Do you have any of that to offer? BTW I'm not trying to insult you or put down the great efforts and expense you go to, just putting this stuff in perspective.

Bottom line - having no website is just one of many signs that the so-called label the OP is talking about is a fly-by-night hobby at best or a scam at worst.

I can appreciate that, and it has been a lot of hard work for me to gain that respect. The two contracts I have done have been for one album, the rights for the music and composition owned by the artists, and the rights for the recording itself owned by me (I recorded the first album in my own home studio).

This way the contract isn't particularly binding, if the artists defects to another label or decides to go it alone they can use the same songs and re-record, and I can still continue distributing the original copy.

And as far as national distribution goes, there is no call for national distribution if a band/artist only has local fans. I do have an online shop as part of the website, so far not a single sale on the website in 3 months, despite my best efforts. Everyone who has wanted to buy has come along to a gig to do so. So I've lost 3 months worth of hosting and marketing fees. But I'm still making the artist money through gig sales and digital downloads - Nil risk to the artist.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by dido__15

as far as national distribution goes, there is no call for national distribution if a band/artist only has local fans. I do have an online shop as part of the website, so far not a single sale on the website in 3 months, despite my best efforts.

My contention is that a band will never have a call for national distribution if they don't have someone with national marketing power working for them. And the website is not for sales of CD's--that too is a sign of amateur hour. Bands can set up Paypal shopping carts on their own individual sites, and sell through CDBaby and other established web stores. The website of a label is there to advertise the label, to establish its credibility by saying what it has to offer, how many bands it has promoted, any and all bragging rights in the industry--or even, in the case of a small startup, a heartfelt statement acknowledging that you haven't got much yet, but you are putting your all into growing the label and promoting the bands as much as you are able. The website is one of the first places a band would look to see whether they should even meet with you.

[Lunchbox4u_6]

Originally Posted by dido__15

Don't blow him off straight away - every label has to start somewhere.

I speak as the owner of a very small UK based label with 2 artists.

Yeah, it's hard work.

I work around a full time job and every penny I earn goes into the label. I don't have time to make a website so I currently have a 5 minute thrown together website as I considered getting the CD's and merch out to sell at gigs more important. Sales generate revenue not the website.

Bottom line - Having no website doesn't mean they are a badly run company, they probably have other priorities.

Just make sure you check all the angles, go along to view the studio, have a long chat with the guy about what other bands/artists he has on the label, and the sort of revenue the deal has created for them. If you can talk to the artists even better.

At the end of the day if all the bases are covered and it's gonna make you money, it can hardly be a bad thing can it?

James

EDIT:: A final thought, if he asks for any money from you up-front then run a mile. If he's professional then all the risk should be on him.

This is exactly what i was thinking.

[TheVoiceless]

Labels play the role of the "bank" and "distributor". These things can be done on your own with some hard work and scrapings from your day jobs. Having said that is does not mean a label can't be helpful. If you are drawing some attention then you should ask him nicely why you should sign with him and not another more reputable label. And if he sounds legit then get a lawyer.

[lorenk]

Originally Posted by Jonyak

You really don't need a label nowadays. just get out there.. talk to people, other bands, build contacts. its alot more work than just playing but you reap all the benefits.

if you want to do shirts, ask everyone from the band to pitch in and get them done.

I second that...my band is putting our own CD out using the money we make from playing.

Our pic we only had to pay 3.25 each (out of four people) out of pocket. The rest was gig money.


Definately would research the guy/label a bit and play it on the safe side though, who knows, maybe he can help you?

[ErebusBass]

Bongo pretty much nailed it on the head.

It sounds like all this label can/will do for you is set you up with a studio (it sounds like you're going to be paying for the studio time), sell you t-shirts you could get cheaper, and book you shows (that they say you probably won't make any money off of).

You can do all of those things yourself, and if they want you to sign something, forget about it.