What I call creative, my guitarist calls noodling.

Pako · #1 08-07-2006, 01:41 PM

Like the title says....

I like to play in the pocket, in fact I love when there's a pocket to be played. On this particular song, we had a guest Sax player with is. The guitarist counts off the song (way slower then we have ever done it that I could recall). With the sax who was a good player, a new dimension was added. Everyone fed off of it, the drums, the guitar, my bass...everything was different. I thought what I did towards the end of the song really complimented everything that everyone was doing but the guitarist had a different opinion. I've never complained about his playing, and I've never complained about his personality. I've worked with him exclusively for 6+ years now, but this really chapped my hide. Should I just blow it off, or do I need to take him out to lunch and have a little sit down? I think there's a key difference between noodling and creative expression. I've matured enough to know that I need to serve the music, I was in no way trying to impress anyone, I was feeling the groove (or so I thought).

What do you guys think?

vindy500 · #2 08-07-2006, 01:42 PM

I personally think you should get over it

morf · #3 08-07-2006, 01:50 PM

If you were grooving in that pocket he has nothing to complain about.

vindy500 · #4 08-07-2006, 01:51 PM

what did you actually do

Rattman · #5 08-07-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindy500

I personally think you should get over it

Get over it.. AND talk to the guitarist. You have to get it 'out of your system'..
before it eats you like cancer. I mean 6 years is 6 years...say your piece, but stay calm.

morf · #6 08-07-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb1

What would Mingus do?

LOL. Quote of the year.

zac2944 · #7 08-07-2006, 01:55 PM

Maybe he is right? Once in 6 years is a pretty good record.

Regardless, you should look at it as feedback. Don't take it personal. Talk to him about your playing. Ask what else he doesn't like. It might help you become a better player.

Pako · #8 08-07-2006, 01:58 PM

Can't say exactly what I was doing.... Normally the song is about 80-90 bpm but it was counted in at 60-65 at best. It was considerably slower than normal. I normally play 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 notes with accents on the up beats. Towards the end of the passage I was doing some jazz-ish bass walks, still emphasizing the down beat, but openly exploring the neck would be the best description I guess....

zongeek · #9 08-07-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb1

What would Mingus do?

Punch the sax player (well in this case guitar player) in the face and then take someones violin and smash it???

vindy500 · #10 08-07-2006, 01:59 PM

so maybe hes so used to you playing grooves that when you started soloing he didnt like it

seansbrew · #11 08-07-2006, 02:04 PM

Can you post a file so we can hear it?

lavaman67 · #12 08-07-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zongeek

Punch the sax player (well in this case guitar player) in the face and then take someones violin and smash it???

You took the words right outta my mouth. Mingus him!!!!

Pako · #13 08-07-2006, 02:14 PM

Sorry, no sound clips. Part of the reason I'm looking into a Roland R-09. Perhaps he did hear something I did that sounded bad or didn't compliment the song, but that wasn't how I remembered it. A recording could really help this discussion.

seansbrew · #14 08-07-2006, 02:30 PM

After listening to your playing and taking in the info you posted. It sounds like he just caught you off guard with his comment. You certainly sound like you know what your doing. How did the other members feel about it? One of the things I have learned from being in a band and playing with people is that you have to be all accepting of what people are doing. It can be a very touchy situation when you address someones creativity in a negative way. Being that he is a guitar player, he is going to interpret things differently. Sometimes my reaction to a song sounds good to me, but not so hot to everyone else.
Unless everyone felt that same as he did, blow it off. It sounds like this is not likely to happen again, at least for a while.

MysticMichael · #15 08-07-2006, 02:32 PM

So many players on TB complain of guitarists who are rigid, egocentric prima donnas; who are jealous of any glory that the bassist might get if he dares to play "outside of the box" (i.e. the root-five rut)...

I've been playing for nearly 30 years - and I'm a pretty creative player at that, frequently coming up with busy lines that are quite outside the traditional pocket. And yet, I can't recall being criticized for it by a guitarist even once. When they comment at all, it's almost always to compliment me for my creativity, style and taste...

Either a) most guitarists are a lot more cool than they're generally being portrayed here, b) I just happen to have played with some unusually cool guitarists, and/or c) they just can't find much of anything to complain about in my playing...

MM

invader3k · #16 08-07-2006, 02:32 PM

What's the big deal? Sounds like it was just one jam session or performance. Was this in a live setting?

BrandonBass · #17 08-07-2006, 02:35 PM

^^^

same here. infact the guitarists ive met promps me to play more. too bad im still too noob to improvise atm

Pako · #18 08-07-2006, 02:55 PM

Maybe some background history would help.... When I first joined up with the band 6+ years ago, I came to the plate with some heavy Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, and Ciff B. influence. When I first played with these guys I DID PLAY TOO MUCH for the music. I was all about how many notes I could play, yaddy yaddah. I never listened to blues, except for maybe SRV and some ZZ Top....well a couple AC/DC tunes at best. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. We were all noob's to the gig but through several come-to-Jesus meetings a common theme of "Less Is More" resonates at every practice. We would cover everything of old blues standards, to SRV, Tragically Hip, to Government Mule while we increased our original set lists. We've gotten to where we play all originals in a night with the occasional cover each set just to keep the natives happy. This happened to be an original tune with my bass line. Guitarist wrote the lyrics and chord progressions. If he has a specific bass line in mind, he tells me...I'll try it, then come up with something else if I think it will sound better and bounce the idea off of him. I was going through some of our old recordings, "What is Hip", our 3 hour Government Mule Tribute show we did, as well as Whippin' Post to name a few and the bass lines are rockin!!! Everyone is rockin'!!! The energy is high, and the mix is where it should be, but lately it seems like he's wanting a more traditional blues thang.... I guess this is fine for him as his licks were still be there, but it requires everyone else in the band to pull back and stay on the standard 1/4/5 thang. I feel a lot better just voicing this out and for that I thank you guys for letting me bounce this off you. I will say that he is not your typical ego maniac but is very opinionated and stubborn in many ways but he's a great guy and I feel fortunate to be playing with him.

Steve · #19 08-07-2006, 04:02 PM

Going by the blue onion site, you can odviously play but I don't know, on about half of those clips you where leaning into it a lot harder than I would have.

I don't know as I would call it noodling, it all made sense but there wasn't much room the breath.

Jazzin' · #20 08-07-2006, 04:10 PM

Just forget about it.