What kind of ####### mics?

Da LadY In Red · #1 06-13-2008, 10:59 AM

... just kidding, but seriously, I played this well known venue last night (Cicero's in St. Louis) and the soundman preferred to mic the cab instead of DI.

Me, I was thinking, what the hell is this guy doing since every venue I've played used DI and imo, it sounds the best. So I asked him if he preferred micing to DI'ing or something and says yeah. I guess I figured it's better to just go with he's more comfortable than my preference, but I was wondering what you guys would've said; would you have bothered?

**john turner** · #2 06-13-2008, 11:04 AM

often times if a club is poorly wired, using the di in your amp to the board could be a good way to fry some gear, especially if the ground isn't lifted before it's plugged in - ground loops ftl.

also, i've played gigs with other band where i would touch their gear with a grounded biohazard suit if i were running sound, let alone plug any of their stuff into the board.

besides, my gear sounds better out of my amp through a 57 than out of some crappy passive di, and i don't want to hook up my aguilar amp to their potentially poorly grounded board either.

fourstringdrums · #3 06-13-2008, 11:05 AM

My guitarist mics. He never goes direct, ever.

bassteban · #4 06-13-2008, 11:07 AM

My understanding was/is that w/a mic, FOH has less control(you might crank your amp & ruin his/her mix)whereas a DI signal doesn't change w/your amp's output.

**john turner** · #5 06-13-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassteban

My understanding was/is that w/a mic, FOH has less control(you might crank your amp & ruin his/her mix)whereas a DI signal doesn't change w/your amp's output.

that's true, but it's not that hard to adjust the volume at the board - easier than changing it while playing at the amp. still, everyone else on stage is using a mic - i always felt di'ing just the bass was sorta lame - i didn't spend all that dough and time accumulating my rockstar rig (lol) to have my tone forced through a whirlwind passive tone-straw. that doesn't mean i've not used a di before - i let the dudes doing the sound do their job with no interference, and don't offer opinions unless asked. not the dudes to annoy heh.

at the better clubs that i've played at, where i knew they had their ducks qucking in unison, i would use the di out of my aguilar, but these were only at pro level places, where i was sure they were solid.

Deacon_Blues · #6 06-13-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums

My guitarist mics. He never goes direct, ever.

An electric guitar sounds crap when DI'd, unless there's a really good speaker simulator in between. (The guitar amp speakers naturally filter out a lot of high frequencies that doesn't sound good at all - try running a guitar through a distortion pedal into a mixer. It will sound horrible. Guitar amps are hence next to always mic'd.

Caca de Kick · #7 06-13-2008, 11:38 AM

I will practically kiss the soundman when they they'd rather mic my amp.

I hate DI, and will only use it with some of the better usual clubs where I trust the soundman and he knows my sound. There's nothing worse than when I'm switching between active and passive basses (different volumes) and the soundman who already has me with an awful tone, isn't paying attension...see, my amp is already setup for my bass changes.

Moe Monsarrat · #8 06-13-2008, 11:42 AM

I've played gigs where they mic'ed my amp & took a DI as well. Since I started using the Radial Bassbone, the house DI feed sounds much better. I used to like the mic on my cab better than the DI. Same for studio stuff. I have used the Bassbone a lot lately straight into the computer. We used to mix a mic'ed cab w/the DI & still do sometimes. I was going to buy an Avalon U5 as well, but my main engineer says the Bassbone sounds better(in his opinion).

slyderhodge · #9 06-13-2008, 11:57 AM

A good soundman would ask you what you would prefer. Also it's your duty to provide a quality DI or Mic. If your happy with the sound of your cab w/ a 57, then don't buy anything, if your happy with your sound out of the amp's DI then don't buy anything.

But if you have spent the dough for a quality rig, and then you owe it to yourself to pickup a nice mic or DI, then you know what the sound going to the board is.

I freelance alot as a live sound engineer, and I am astounded by the number of bass players I talk to that have seen that show up with $3000 bass, $2000 amp, $1000 in pedals, and then run the signal going to the amp through a $60 DI. Come on people.

Most people running sound at the clubs/bars are normally working for crap money and don't really give two rat turds about the tone of the bass. They're more worried about getting w/ that chick in the red tube top.

Word

vinny · #10 06-13-2008, 12:16 PM

We played a club the last two Saturdays (first time there) & the soundman miked everything. The sound couldn't have been better. I offered him my head's DI (GK1001RBII) & he said he'd rather mike it. Truly one of the good guys.

John Wentzien · #11 06-13-2008, 12:28 PM

I've always had the best luck letting the sound-man use whatever he is used to..
You can count on having bad sound if you are too picky or complicated--I promise!

JimmyM · #12 06-13-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassteban

My understanding was/is that w/a mic, FOH has less control(you might crank your amp & ruin his/her mix)whereas a DI signal doesn't change w/your amp's output.

When a soundman says this to me, I say, "So the idea is to make my sound suffer because you can't be bothered with moving a fader once in a while?" What's he getting paid to do? Might as well hire a security guard instead.

I've come back to micing after 10 years of being dissatisfied enough with my amp tone not to care. When I can help it, I don't run a DI at all. Yeah, you can't go making sweeping gigantic volume changes, but an occasional mild tweak won't kill anyone.

TrevorOfDoom · #13 06-13-2008, 12:39 PM

the obvious solution is to be prepared for either event.

find yourself either a good DI or a head with a good DI, and also buy cabs that you like the sound of.

personally, when a soundman just goes straight for my DI, i know that they just want what they want, as far as the sound. and i'm okay with that, because the DI in my head sounds great.
but when they go for a mic, i'm overjoyed because that means they want the bass to be the closest representative of my sound that they can get.
but honestly, i'm happy with either.

but seriously, go buy a decent DI anyways. if your amp goes down you need to plug into something, and i've learned if you don't bring your own, the one on hand is likely a Berhinger.

GianGian · #14 06-13-2008, 12:41 PM

I think it depends on the microphone. "Usual" all around mikes don't "hear" the lowest frequencies.

TrevorOfDoom · #15 06-13-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GianGian

I think it depends on the microphone. "Usual" all around mikes don't "hear" the lowest frequencies.

true, but a lot of well known folks have gotten great results for many years just using an SM57.

i'm a bit more partial to the 57 because too often the alternative is a drum mic with a scooped sound, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

JimmyM · #16 06-13-2008, 01:05 PM

I'm more partial to the 58 myself. And you're right, it's not necessary that it have 40 hz on the low end for it to sound great on a bass cab. However, after owning this PR 40 for a month and ABing it extensively with Shure mics, that kind of low end response does make a difference for the better.

But I totally agree about kick mics...I hate them on bass, and I can just barely tolerate them on bass drums, especially the D112. Sounds like someone dribbling a basketball

namraj · #17 06-13-2008, 01:05 PM

what amp do you play, sometimes sound guy's can be nervous about the reliability of DI's, the Glastonbury sound guy said that he will only DI ashdown and ampeg because he's had pretty much every other manufacturer's DI's conk out on him and never had a problem with ashdown or ampeg so...

BillyRay · #18 06-13-2008, 01:16 PM

I much prefer to DI when I'm going through the PA if the soundman is a competent one and the board is nice (EQ insert for instance). If all he has is a crappy board but he knows what he is doing, sticking a 57 in front of the cab usually works in quiet situations (ie. amp not 6 inches away from drummer's floor tom).

If the soundman doesn't care and he can't EQ a good sound, I'll just crank it up louder and don't go through the PA at all. I don't play big clubs (and really never had apart from some festivals and school hall gigs).

I'll also DI if the feed is for monitors only (small club with a somewhat big stage). I don't really care if my tone is wimpy and dry through some ratty wedges. I've had the opportunity to go DI + mic once and it sounded amazing but was mucho hassle to set up. Helps when your COMPETENT friend is doing the sound

JimmyM · #19 06-13-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namraj

what amp do you play, sometimes sound guy's can be nervous about the reliability of DI's, the Glastonbury sound guy said that he will only DI ashdown and ampeg because he's had pretty much every other manufacturer's DI's conk out on him and never had a problem with ashdown or ampeg so...

So why do these guys who hate amp DI's always stick you with a Whirlwind or BSS POS? If I show up with a nice amp and the soundman doesn't want me to use its DI and sticks a Whirlwind or BSS up there, I wonder what he's been smoking.

Fortunately, those days are pretty well over for me. On 99% of my gigs, I have control over the soundman or they trust me enough to know I won't sabotage my sound, so I get what I want, be it a DI or mic.

BillyRay, may I ask you where the difficulty lied in setting up a mic? I find it no harder than setting up a DI, quite honestly. Might take an extra minute or two, but I show up early enough.

GianGian · #20 06-13-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorOfDoom

true, but a lot of well known folks have gotten great results for many years just using an SM57.

i'm a bit more partial to the 57 because too often the alternative is a drum mic with a scooped sound, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

I didn't know that. I don't understand how it can sound good if it can't pick say 31Hz low E as somebody said below.(nothing below 40Hz)