What's the secret to writing music everyone in the band likes?

MistaMarko · #1 11-05-2006, 11:17 PM

Does anyone have problems writing songs that everyone likes except the guitarist who wishes it was faster or wishes the guitar solos were 15 minutes longer?

What's the secret to writing good music anyway? I seem to have the WORST problem with "re-creating" other people's songs, so to speak. I'm the type that dedicates a time to sit down and say "I AM writing a song"...and I think I'm forcing ideas that aren't there. I just have bad writers block, and feel that my creativity when writing music is non-existant. I don't know if I need inspiration, or to widen my musical listening range, or simply practice writing songs. What do you guys use for song writing motivation?

AdlerAugen · #2 11-05-2006, 11:51 PM

Songs that long aren't worth it--people stop caring after about 6-10 minutes in any song--so a 15 minute solo with no lyrics is boring enough as it is. It's especially not economic to add a solo to a copyrighted song for purposes of royalties--the longer it is, the bigger the royalties, and the slower you play it, with more solos, the longer it is, thus bigger royalties (for recording purposes).

In the Bible it talks about how there's nothing new under the sun--I believe it's in Ecclesiastes--which means nothing you make is purely original. Meaning: don't worry about it. Some songs are 'original' not because they've never been done before, but because the last occurence of it wasn't very memorable or recent. Sometimes you just have to use a formula (Ever read 1984 by George Orwell?)

PalaNIN · #3 11-06-2006, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlerAugen

a 15 minute solo with no lyrics is boring enough as it is.

I believe The Mars Volta would like a word with you. :P

Back on topic, however, the short and quick answer is that everyone gets their songwriting from different sources. If you think that you're forcing ideas, try bringing a notepad or voice recorder with you when you're out and about. Whenever an idea pops into your head, write down the notes, hum it into the voice recorder, or write down some comments or even just write out the rhythm. Then, during your special songwriting time, go back to that notepad and try and expand on it. That way, you're working within some constraints and it gives you a bit more focus.

I tend to use my mobile phone because I always have it on me, and I've written quite a few songs that way. As for writing material that fits with your band, you can just tell them to make whatever changes they want and quit whining.

Oreomeister365 · #4 11-06-2006, 08:51 AM

I usually just powertab things that come to mind.

At this point I have about 10 things, and whenever I go back to them I still think they suck.

markjazzbassist · #5 11-06-2006, 10:37 AM

try writing all your music together, as one unit. this will help everyone to get their idea in and feel they contributed.

With my jazz trio we usually start with the drummer laying down a groove, ill add bass, then the keys player will do some melody or whathaveyou.

it might take some extended jams to get some ideas.

Bayou_Brawler · #6 11-06-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

Does anyone have problems writing songs that everyone likes except the guitarist who wishes it was faster or wishes the guitar solos were 15 minutes longer?

first shoot that guitarist in the face.

in my current band we all have input for the tune...someone comes with an idea or a song and we all work on it together and throw around ideas...you can't give everyone their way all the time but you can make comprimises..take votes...etc...give a guy's idea a go if he uses one you had etc.....

this way the band sounds like all of you...

don't forget to shoot that guitarist in the face though...

ric1312 · #7 11-06-2006, 12:03 PM

Secret to writing songs everyone in your band likes, who knows.....

As far as the song it'self....... catchy hooks and melodies, on top of well played instruments.

A lot of new song writers try to make things too complex simplicity = easily remembered songs

chaosMK · #8 11-06-2006, 12:52 PM

You guys can try jamming. If your drummer isnt used to free flowing type stuff, then maybe work with him on your own. Bring a few riffs that you've been working on when you jam and try them out. If you and the drummer can get a cool groove going on, then the guitarist will kind of have to follow. If that doesnt work, then you need to spend some time breaking down the guitarist.

A lot of the coolest stuff I've come up with (in terms of how well it fits with and adds to the song) came from on the fly stuff with the rest of the band.

Nedmundo · #9 11-06-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosMK

You guys can try jamming. If your drummer isnt used to free flowing type stuff, then maybe work with him on your own. Bring a few riffs that you've been working on when you jam and try them out. If you and the drummer can get a cool groove going on, then the guitarist will kind of have to follow. If that doesnt work, then you need to spend some time breaking down the guitarist.

A lot of the coolest stuff I've come up with (in terms of how well it fits with and adds to the song) came from on the fly stuff with the rest of the band.

This was going to be my suggestion -- and make darned sure you record every instant! It's too easy to forget that cool bass line or drum groove afterwards. Plus, writing music "as one unit," as markjazzbassist says, is very satisfying, and the results can be great. In my experience with rock bands, the problem can be coming up with lyrics and a good vocal melody if those aren't there from the start.

bassjamn · #10 11-06-2006, 03:17 PM

+1 on jamming/Recording. using a quick and dirty recording device(mini disk, mp3 recorder) works wonders for material. I do this with one of my bands and we have over 150 jams now. Sure 75% of it is not worthwhile but occasionally you stumble on a single part of a jam that is the basis for a song.

Then comes the work of actually putting the pieces of the jam together and rehearssing it.

On the otherhand of course, for highly structured music, I think it's easier for 1 person to come up with the song parts beforehand and present it to the band.

invader3k · #11 11-06-2006, 03:37 PM

I'm surprised no one has suggested getting into an "altered state."

MistaMarko · #12 11-06-2006, 03:53 PM

Funny you say that, being that it's the name of my band ...

bassjamn · #13 11-06-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invader3k

I'm surprised no one has suggested getting into an "altered state."

In my younger years, while it was fun i found it hinders more then helps.

Getting in that zone where you think everything sounds awesome, really just sounds horrible. Not to mention the way it affects your 'Work mode".

invader3k · #14 11-06-2006, 04:07 PM

Yeah, I was just joking. Some people claim it gives them inspiration, but I think it really just makes things seem better than they really are.

Bassist_Ben · #15 11-06-2006, 10:39 PM

music is best written on the spot with your band. my band did that yesterday and we love the song. because you can all say what you think is good and bad during the process.

if one person disagrees we talk it through, why this person doesnt' like it. Then we change it NOT FULLY but change it a little so everyones happy. Eg/ shorten the guitar solo.

so yeah...cheers, Ben.

NickyBass · #16 11-07-2006, 07:06 AM

People in a band, who have motives other than making great music can hinder alot. If the guitarist doesn't like the song because he can't shine, then it's not a songwriting issue. You can't please everyone. Being in a band is about compromise, but everyone has to be willing to give. I don't like to write together as a band from scratch. If you are going to collaborate, it might be a good idea to work out a song with 2 or 3 people, then bring it to the rest. Everyone will have an opinion, and trying them all out can take the song off track. You don't want to lose the meaning of the song so that there can be a random guitar solo.

Dkerwood · #17 11-08-2006, 01:12 PM

I usually just write the song and then bounce it off the band. Often, someone else will come up with a cool idea that we'll incorporate.

For example, my bassist came up with the idea for shouting "Huh" together in our opening tune. Sounds stupid, but now we get big crowds shouting it with us. It's become part of the hook.

Another example - we did a show with a rapper once and had to modify one of the songs to accomodate a rap break (deleted the bridge and put in a halftime groove). Turns out we liked it that way and it stuck!

My key is to not get too attached to specifics. I figure that the band's sound is the interaction between the three of us, and has little to do with what I might think the drummer *should* be playing. He's the drummer, not me, and he has better ideas than I do, anyway. Occasionally, I'll know exactly what I want everyone to play at a section, but usually I'll just worry about the big picture and then I'll develop my guitar parts while they develop their parts.

I also find that "bad" things tend to fade away after a while, and only the good tends to remain. If a riff isn't working, eventually it tends to work itself out of the song or it evolves into something that works better. If a groove isn't gelling, it eventually changes to the point that it CAN groove. At least that's how it works for us.