What's Wrong With This Story?

kazamamaster · #1 11-30-2007, 07:06 AM

OK, before I start let me say that this is sort of a long story, needless to say, I'd like to ask, in the end was the act I'm going to describe really mature?

It starts with myself posting an ad on craigslist looking for musicians in the area looking to play fusion. I got a response from a guitar player who said he knew someone who played drums. So the three of us were to meet, along with a keyboard player I knew. Thing is, I saw another ad from a vocalist who needed a band, she knew a promoter, and apparently they had gigs lined up. Only thing missing was a band. So we all meet, discuss common goals, get a playlist going and a CD from which to learn music.

After a couple weeks of spending time with the CD's we get together for a rehearsal. The only issue is, the vocalist was not as great as she made it out to be. All the musicians had been playing for 10 plus years while we found out she had only been singing since January of this year. This is something she neglected to mention to us off the bat.

So, to date, we've had 3 rehearsals, and at 2 of the three, the vocalist decided she wanted to bring 2 other vocalists which also weren't that great either. So, after our last rehearsal she asked me how I felt the progress was going, and I was upfront about my disappointments in the progress and how things were turning out. I neglected to tell her about how the band felt her singing was suspect. However, it was decided amongst the band to give her a couple more rehearsals to straighten up her act, HOWEVER we decided to post an ad looking for a more experienced jazz singer to start another side project and replace the original one if things didn't work out.

Well, we've been getting replies on that ad.

The twist in the story is------The original vocalist saw the ad, and had one of her friends reply to it, to see whether or not it was us who posted it. Because I replied to the email not knowing whether it was real or not, the original vocalist was pissed about it and felt we stabbed her in the back. It was within our intent to give her a chance, even though this was going to be a side project until things worked out, and if it didn't she was outta there.....

So after she has her friend reply to the email, she sends back a really nasty email back to the entire group in which her attacks are all towards me etc. Now who was in the wrong?

**Rune Bivrin** · #2 11-30-2007, 07:14 AM

This is a bit iffy. I think you were all wrong. The singer for not being up-front about her experience, and the rest of the band for not being up-front about your disappointment in her unexpectedly poor performance.

Posting the ad was a low blow, I think. It would have been OK if you'd told the singer you were looking for alternatives.

bluestarbass · #3 11-30-2007, 07:16 AM

Thats kinda a tough call. She wasnt talented enough, but when I go to an audition people dont ask me, well do you suck or not. Its pretty apparent. If you guys were thinking of getting another singer you should have kicked her out right away, especially if you didnt have gigs lined up. If the situation was reversed, and they didnt feel you were a good enough bass player, and you found out they were looking for another one without telling you would you be pissed?

I do think it was kinda dumb to post another ad in the same place you found her and expected her not to see it.

All in all it doesnt matter how you handled it. If she wasnt good enough she wasnt good enough. Jazz Fusion is really tough music, and it takes some chops to play. Whether it was a bad situation or not it worked itself out.

MarchingPig · #4 11-30-2007, 07:17 AM

yup. you all effed up.

kazamamaster · #5 11-30-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

Thats kinda a tough call. She wasnt talented enough, but when I go to an audition people dont ask me, well do you suck or not. Its pretty apparent. If you guys were thinking of getting another singer you should have kicked her out right away, especially if you didnt have gigs lined up. If the situation was reversed, and they didnt feel you were a good enough bass player, and you found out they were looking for another one without telling you would you be pissed?

I do think it was kinda dumb to post another ad in the same place you found her and expected her not to see it.

All in all it doesnt matter how you handled it. If she wasnt good enough she wasnt good enough. Jazz Fusion is really tough music, and it takes some chops to play. Whether it was a bad situation or not it worked itself out.

But still, that's the thing! I never cared whether she saw it or not. It was for a side project regardless. Even still, if she didn't work out, she was going to be replaced.

Even though we set out to do jazz, her style was more neo soul, like Jill Scott, Erykah badu etc...She still couldn't nail the songs that she picked.

Would be I upset if they found another bassist without me knowing? No not necessarily, especially if I wasn't upfront about my exerperience.....

invader3k · #6 11-30-2007, 08:40 AM

I think you should have been more forthcoming about your disappointment in her performance, so she wouldn't have been surprised when she saw you were looking for alternatives.

QORC · #7 11-30-2007, 09:31 AM

are you really surprised? You put her on "double secret probation", lie to her face, and then go and post a secret ad on craigslist to replace her behind her back???

I've seen things happen like this before. You guys are acting like spineless weasels. You deserve whatever happens to you, to be honest.

Treat people as you yourself would like to be treated.

Rickett Customs · #8 11-30-2007, 09:42 AM

First things first, try being more direct when it comes to the matter of the band, put other feelings aside....period. You either "is what you is,or ain't what you ain't", so if the rest of the group are in agreement that the caliber of the vocalist is sub-par, then be up front about it, that is whats wrong with this story (IMO) (IME).
Besides, If you and other members of the band are 10yrs +, then you guys will know a good singer when you see it, from the sound of situation, you need to keep looking after said "attack" anyways.

Moe Monsarrat · #9 11-30-2007, 09:46 AM

You could have done this in a better way, no doubt. Being upfront is the best. That being said, the music biz is cruel all over. If she couldn't sing on day one, you should have blown it off right then and there. It rarely gets better with a few practice sessions. When the right singer walks in and lights it up, you won't have to wonder about your choice. The only question then is: "Is this person sane/insane enough to play in our band?" Yeah, the way you did it sucked, but if she isn't all that good she's got a lot more of the same coming her way. She'll have to get used to it.

Rickett Customs · #10 11-30-2007, 10:04 AM

Also, no matter what she had lined up, would it be worth it?
If it was something major, maybe, if not , pass.

purfektstranger · #11 11-30-2007, 10:04 AM

"I neglected to tell her about how the band felt her singing was suspect. However, it was decided amongst the band to give her a couple more rehearsals to straighten up her act."

So how could she know her singing wasn't up to par if nobody told her?

"She sends back a really nasty email back to the entire group in which her attacks are all towards me etc. Now who was in the wrong?"

You guys were definitely in the wrong on all counts. You didn't tell her there was a problem with her singing and then set out to replace her behind her back.

casualmadness · #12 11-30-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QORC

Treat people as you yourself would like to be treated.

+1
I was in a band a few years back that was doing very well. The singer and guitar player decided that they wanted to start a new band without the drummer and I. So they started a new band and rehearsed until they were ready to start palying shows; all the ehwile still practicing with the drummer and me from the original band. A few days before their first show, they told us that they wanted to take a break for a while and spend some time apart and then maybe reform later. They both said that they just needed a break from playing music for a while. We reluctantly agreed oly to hear about a show they were doing with their new band just a few days later.
Bottom line is; if you are unhappy with a band or band member; don't lead them on. That just plain sucks.

makaky · #13 11-30-2007, 10:38 AM

I agree with Alembicplyr,

experienced players should tell within the first 30 mins if a musicien is gonna be able to deliver.

When i audition drummers, i usualy know after 30 seconds

and

Honesty owns all

bigfatbass · #14 11-30-2007, 12:58 PM

I thought 90210 went off the air? Why weren't you just honest with her in the first place?
You already wasted the time for the subsequent rehearsals by not being honest with her about how much work she had to do anyway. You did everyone a disservice.

That being said, tell her to save the drama for her mama, get a thicker skin, work harder, and find a new hobby if she can't accomplish the first three. Young female singers are easy to find, but why not just have one of the other members take the lead vocal slot? Can't be any worse than a greenhorn with a fragile 'tude.

Steve · #15 12-01-2007, 06:30 AM

Oh, what a tangled web we weave....

Jazz Ad · #16 12-01-2007, 06:56 AM

Well, you got rid of a bad singer and she's pissed so she won't beg to come back.
It looks like an ideal situation to me.

morf · #17 12-01-2007, 07:10 AM

She was wrong off the bat not to tell you her experience. If you put me with my two years of bass in a band with musicians playing 10+ years and I don't tell them anything, I wouldn't feel confident enough to play well knowing the people beside me aren't satisfied with my level. You tried doing a serious project, doesn't sound like she was very serious about it.

That said, what you did was also screwed up. You (the whole band) should have been honest the first time you heard her sing, and told her about the side project the moment you decided on it.

**Howlin' Hanson** · #18 12-01-2007, 07:44 AM

kazamamaster, I have some empathy for you, as (according to your OP) the BAND decided to keep looking. It wasn't your decision alone, but the singers are venting on you since you were the person fielding the inquiries.

Regardless, the way it was handled will hurt the band, as these women spread their unhappiness. This will generate sympathy for them, and possible opportunities for them . (Until their true talent is revealed to others.)

Too late to fix this, IMHO. Better find a good singer and start rehabilitating your reputation. Quickly.