When You Get Paid More Than You Expect -

sixtwofour · #1 02-11-2008, 08:42 AM

What do you do?

As a band, we have a weird situation. We played 2 nights this weekend at the same bar. The expectation that we all had was it was $500 a night * 2. We have 5 guys, plus we had a rather expensive soundman. The soundman was supposed to get $200, so we were all going to see a little less as a group, but it was an important gig for us, so we were all okay with it. In addition, the band leader was supposed to take our rehearsal space cash off the top - 400/month * 2 months = $800, so basically, we were playing to get caught up financially. We should have all walked out with no money (which would have been fine by me).

After all was said and done, I ended up with $240 bucks for the weekend. It makes no sense. My understanding is that the soundguy took $150 instead of the original $200, and everyone in the band got paid $240. If we were to get paid straight ($100 a man, I should have gotten $200).

We have a 'manager', aka an angel investor that every once in a while fronts money for the band to cover the rehearsal space if there aren't any gigs (which there haven't been because we just went through a lineup change - how I got in the band) - but the agreement is that we pay him back with gig money.

The band leader said he didn't want to talk about the specifics, and there was some band member arguing, because everyone knew someone (the band leader or the manager) probably didn't take their full cut. Not to mention someone (band leader or manager) is footing the bill for the rehearsal space. We confronted the band leader, and he just said 'don't worry, I got my cut'.

If I work my way through the math, the sound guy takes $150 instead of $200, 4 guys take $240, that's $1110 bucks, which would be a weird number to get paid anyway. It's possible the bar may have paid us more. They will pay bands up to $1000 a night (the band leader has another band that gets paid that much to play there, but they've been around longer), so they may have given us a little extra because the Saturday was such a good night for them. If I add $240 for the band leader, it makes a nice even $1350.

It all makes me uncomfortable. They're all good guys. The money helps, but it's not my main source of income. I'd much rather take a smaller cut and make sure everyone gets paid the same. The band leader works hard - does the light show, the stage setup, the set lists, most of the bookings. The drummer works his butt off doing PA setup. The other guys work hard too.

Anyone ever have similar circumstances? How did you resolve it? I'm not sure we can resolve it unless the band leader comes clean with everything, and I don't think anyone can force him to. I'm being treated more than fair, so it's not like I'm mad, I just feel guilty. I wish the band leader was more open about the financial details.

PS - similar issue with last week's Friday nighter - I got more money than I expected, and I know a different sound guy got paid too.

JKT · #2 02-11-2008, 09:55 AM

If you're working under a band leader who handles the dough, you're better off keeping your mouth shout. Not your problem or responsibility. It may be the bar tipped you guys plus or minus someone else got docked for screwing up which isn't cool but happens under certain administrations

JKT

punkbassistfc · #3 02-11-2008, 10:07 AM

Better off keeping your mouth shut. Enjoy the cash.

IanStephenson · #4 02-11-2008, 10:09 AM

If you're a hired player, and the leader really is the guy in charge then let it go - if you're hired and subsequently payed to do the job, then you just got a bonus... enjoy it.

On the other hand if things are more democratic, where the cash under discussion is partially your money even before it's split up, then you need to sort out the transparency aspect. If guess the difference would be, if the rehersal debt hadn't been paid off, would you be liable for a share of it or is that an expense taken on by the "business" which happens to employ you. Does the bar hire the leader to provide a band, or do they hire the band?

We have a couple of guys that sort bookings and stuff, but they're doing a job for the band, rather than the band working for them. I'd let it go for this gig, but discuss things for the future, so everyone knows what's happening to the band financialy. In this case there was extra, so it's all good, but if there'd been a shortfall, and you'd been asked to take a paycut you'd have wanted to know why - keep things consistant and keep the books open.

Ian

need4mospd · #5 02-11-2008, 10:10 AM

If the guy handling the finances is happy AND you got paid more than you expected, I don't see what the problem is.

sixtwofour · #6 02-11-2008, 11:43 AM

Thanks for the input.

Just for some clarification -

I'm not a fill-in or hired gun, although I am a new guy. The band has been around for about 2.5 years. I've been with them since around New Years, and we picked up a new singer about 2 weeks later. The band leader does the bookings because he has the best connections and has been doing this in the area for a long time. There's no real reason that any of the other folks couldn't get us gigs other than names and connections. I refer to him as the band leader because he's getting us the most gigs, has the most experience, and when it comes time to get paid, he deals with the bar manager because he booked the gig. I consider us a democratic band, and I think everyone else does to. As it is with bands, though, usually someone is the James Hetfield eventually.

I'm not complaining because I got more money than I should. I'm just wondering if there's a good way to approach getting full disclosure of the finances, seeing as we're on the hook for a rehearsal space, although I don't know who's name the lease is in.

varunkapahi · #7 02-11-2008, 11:53 AM

i would feel good about it if it happens to me
and if u feel you shouldn't be getting that money then u can go ahead and put in a donation box for cancer victims or poor children

sixtwofour · #8 02-11-2008, 02:00 PM

My concern is about band politics, band costs incurred (sound engineers, rehearsal space, equipment, demos, promo kits, web presence), everyone getting their cut, and the stickiness that goes with these things.

Any one else have any constructive input on how to approach the subject with band members without stepping on toes or insulting the de facto band leader? Like I said, I'm a new guy, and I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but if we're not being transparent about the money now, what happens when it's the other way and I get less money?

I don't have a problem being paid. Telling me to donate the money to poor kids is or recommending I just take the money and shut up doesn't help.

theshadow2001 · #9 02-11-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixtwofour

My concern is about band politics, band costs incurred (sound engineers, rehearsal space, equipment, demos, promo kits, web presence), everyone getting their cut, and the stickiness that goes with these things.

Any one else have any constructive input on how to approach the subject with band members without stepping on toes or insulting the de facto band leader? Like I said, I'm a new guy, and I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but if we're not being transparent about the money now, what happens when it's the other way and I get less money?

I don't have a problem being paid. Telling me to donate the money to poor kids is or recommending I just take the money and shut up doesn't help.

Ask him do you owe anyone any money. I.e. manager, rehersal space, band fund, etc.

If no then you've got 240 dollars. If yes don't spend the 240 dollars. After that it's someone else's problem

Rattman · #10 02-11-2008, 02:58 PM

Yeah... the math is quite odd.. However since you weren't taking real great notes on who got what exactly I'd have to agree.. take the cash and keep your mouth shut (for now). I think maybe it's time for the cards to be laid on the table and found out for NEXT time what will go to whom... or entrust someone with impecable ethics to handle the money from now on .. just a thought.

tycobb73 · #11 02-11-2008, 03:52 PM

I would still be concerned. In a few months the situation could be reversed.

TrevorOfDoom · #12 02-11-2008, 03:53 PM

TAKE IT AND RUN!!!

**Freddels** · #13 02-11-2008, 05:05 PM

Was there a good turnout for the gig? Maybe the bar kicked in a little more $ b/c they had a good night. Anything is possible.

Don't worry about the extra. You asked about it and the leader said it was fine, so he didn't screw up in the math and gave you what he thought was correct.

nsmar4211 · #14 02-11-2008, 05:55 PM

Just make sure you know what your share of the expenses is. Get it in writing if you have to (100 bucks for rehersal, 50 bucks a gig for soundguy, etc). Long as you are covering your agreed upon share of the expenses, don't sweat it if they give you more. My band splits everything. If we get paid extra, we split it. Odd numbers we give the extra to whoever had to drive the furthest/bring the most equipment/etc. Tips get split after the bartender gets tipped. If you aren't comfortable, just ask the leader to explain it to you so you don't come up short one night.
Beware of asking other people what they got paid because you may not like the answer

.
My worst situation was when a band leader hired me to sub for a set fee.... end of night hands me 2/3 of agreed fee, saying that he had cut a deal with the bartender because there wasn't a lot of people there. Sorry, not my problem... not my band. Rest of the guys got same thing I did. I kept my trap shut till i could ask my teacher about it, I didn't consider myself a good enough player to demand full payment at that point. Teacher said, it's up to you-hes worked with the guy for years and said he probably didn't even pay himself in that situation. Thought about it and and it was the last time I played with him... was busy the next time around. Just be careful they don't start shorting you!

.

matt_bollinger · #15 02-11-2008, 11:42 PM

You said that you feel guilty, the situation makes you uncomfortable, and you wish the band leader was more open about the financial details. You also mentioned that other band members had concerns, "some band member arguing".

While you are the new guy, you are not alone in your concerns. I might talk with the other band members first to get as much history and information as I could, also to help me decide how important it is to me to know the financial details. I would want to be sure that the band leader and the other band members knew how I felt about it, and maybe it would be ok to leave it at that.

Sometimes people want to be generous, and are in a position to be (the "angel investor"?). It can be uncomfortable to receive the generosity of others, but maybe that's all this is.

shawn-o · #16 02-11-2008, 11:53 PM

Just phone the band leader and just say something like " Hey there, I dont want to step on any toes or anything- but i just wanted to check and see if everyone ended up getting paid from last weekend. I wasnt expecting as much as i recieved and wanted to make sure that nobody was left out from getting an equal cut".

Id say you should be fine though if you asked him and he said everything is alright. As someone said earlier, if the bar ended up having a "better than expected" night- They may have kicked in alittle extra.

jellymax · #17 02-11-2008, 11:57 PM

it may have been a couple of good nights for the club

also the band leader may underestimate the dough just in case--not a bad idea

since you are not hurting for dough, then if later asked to kick in for rent it'll
be no sweat to kick in 40 or so

since you are new to the band you should keep your nose out of it for now--
--otherwise thou shalt be a weenie. unless of course you are barely cutting it
and desire to make up for it in other ways......

Munjibunga · #18 02-12-2008, 12:03 AM

The pay was actually $700 a night, but the leader told you it was $500 a night intending to skim off the difference. But he felt guilty, so he gave each of you a little extra to ease his conscience. So he still got "his cut."

There. Now you know.

Alaska Bass · #19 02-12-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

The pay was actually $700 a night, but the leader told you it was $500 a night intending to skim off the difference. But he felt guilty, so he gave each of you a little extra to ease his conscience. So he still got "his cut."

There. Now you know.

Behold, wisdom speaks.

Lesfunk · #20 02-12-2008, 12:47 AM

when you get paid less....That's when you bring it up!