Who provides the drum mics? The band or the drummer?

mattsk42 · #1 02-13-2008, 03:27 PM

Our band's manager is INDEPENDENTLY financing our band PA.

He is buying (without any money provided either now or later from the band) a full PA including speakers, mixer, poweramps, snake, and subs.

We all have our own vocal mics. The keyboardist, 1 guitar, and I am all going direct out of our DI boxes/amps that we already own.

We need to obviously mic the drums, but he has none, and the lead guitar has no mic for his cab.

IN THIS SITUATION is it up to the manager to provide drum mics because it's "part of the PA", or is it up to the drummer since it's "part of the drums gear" ?

I can see how it would go either way somewhat.

We all have a way to get to the board and all have our own mics that WE paid for already (in addition to instruments). Therefore, he should have to have HIS own way to get to the board (in addition to drums).

I can also see how he would say that he doesn't need them because he can play without it, and it's part of a PA that isn't used unless playing out.

zachbass02 · #2 02-13-2008, 04:00 PM

well if he buys the mics, then the drummer uses them only with your band...if he ever leaves, the mics stay with the PA owner and the band. He has no claim to them...If he buys them, then they stay/go with him....it's all in how you want to run things from the band perspective...If he doesn't have the money for them, and the band does, then go that way...

scottbass · #3 02-13-2008, 04:09 PM

The drummer has owned the drum mics in every band I've played in (sample size = about 12 bands so far). But that doesn't mean he has to own them in your band.

Now, if you're playing at venues where the PA is furnished, that's certainly an item to clarify when you are negotiating the contract. Many venues I have played supplied drum mics along with the rest of the PA. However, some venues supplied a PA but didn't supply any drum mics.

thesteve · #4 02-13-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachbass02

well if he buys the mics, then the drummer uses them only with your band...if he ever leaves, the mics stay with the PA owner and the band. He has no claim to them...If he buys them, then they stay/go with him....it's all in how you want to run things from the band perspective...If he doesn't have the money for them, and the band does, then go that way...

exactly what i was going to say.

mattsk42 · #5 02-13-2008, 04:27 PM

We are not relying on anyplace providing a PA. Relying being the key word. Like, no matter what, we're going to get ALL equipment needed to run a show on our own.

He has the money, just doesn't want to spend it (understandably), and the band's PA budget is not very much so it would stretch it if we bought drum mics.

knarleybass · #6 02-13-2008, 04:30 PM

Every drummer I play with is responsible for his (or her) mics, now that is at the gig where we are playing covers, showcase shows where we are one of many bands in the night, the mics are supplied by the house, and while it's good if the drummer brings his mics to the studio, the studio should have good drum mics.

newfuture · #7 02-13-2008, 04:35 PM

With reasonably high quality (for live) drum mic kits being available for ~$200, I'm not sure it matters much.

+1 to the "how do you want to operate as a band?" notion.

mattsk42 · #8 02-13-2008, 05:44 PM

We HAVE been operating as a band for only a few weeks now, but our singer took over the "business" duties and got a financer to pay for the equipment. He can't get much out of the financer, so drum mics are in debate as to whether we should LIMIT our PA system in order to buy mics, and then hope that we can get by until we get good PA stuff. OR, we should just make it on the drummer to get them even though he already bought 1,000 dollar drums (with his OWN money). And the singer only bought a 90 dollar SM58 (with his OWN money). Seems out of balance.

theshadow2001 · #9 02-13-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsk42

We HAVE been operating as a band for only a few weeks now, but our singer took over the "business" duties and got a financer to pay for the equipment. He can't get much out of the financer, so drum mics are in debate as to whether we should LIMIT our PA system in order to buy mics, and then hope that we can get by until we get good PA stuff. OR, we should just make it on the drummer to get them even though he already bought 1,000 dollar drums (with his OWN money). And the singer only bought a 90 dollar SM58 (with his OWN money). Seems out of balance.

You probably dumped a grand into your stage gear. The bottom line is you supply your own gear. You buy the tools you need to work in a band. If the drummer is bitching about the cost of a set of drum mics then tell him to become a singer. Drums by their very nature are expensive. In spite of the cheap prices over there I don't think a grand is a lot to spend on a drum kit. Bottom line you buy what you personally are going to use. Buy your own monitor buy your own amp, DI, instrument etc. The only place where things become iffy is where they are being used communally like the mixing desk lights PA speakers/power amps.
Don't limit your PA for drum mics. Get him to buy an cheap set until he can afford something decent.

Joey3313 · #10 02-13-2008, 06:38 PM

Drummer should supply the mic's he needs. Clearly.

**Ryan L.** · #11 02-13-2008, 06:40 PM

Every drummer that I've played with has supplied his own mics.

Aaron · #12 02-13-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfuture

With reasonably high quality (for live) drum mic kits being available for ~$200, I'm not sure it matters much.

+1 to the "how do you want to operate as a band?" notion.

If you look at what mics are used as the standards, drum mics can cost quite a bit more than $200. At most shows, you see either a D112 or a Shure Beta 52 on the kick. Both of those mics will run about $200. That's just for a kick mic.

Why do you need a big PA, anyway? I'm just curious. The only situations I've been in where the band needed to supply a PA was for smaller venues where you didn't need to mic the kit. Bigger venues have their own PAs.

lewislngvw · #13 02-13-2008, 06:51 PM

why should we as bass players buy an amp for $1000 that has a great DI to go thru the board and the drummer(or dummer as i call my brother...lol)...expects everyone to bow down to him because he keeps the beat??....he should supply his own mics....just as everyone else should

Smallmouth_Bass · #14 02-13-2008, 06:54 PM

The fact that he paid for the drums that cost $1000 out of his own money is just part of choosing to play that instrument. I don't expect my band mates to pay for my bass, my amp and all the related cables.

But, I do agree:
Band buys the mics = mics stay with band
Drummer buys the mics = mics go with the drummer

I would lean more towards them being the responsibility of the drummer. Another thing to consider is that if they belong to him, then he's more likely to take care of them. You're going to make sure your bass is well taken care of, right? That's because it's yours and you've got something to lose if something happens to it. If the mics are going to be owned by the band, it's more likely that they might not be as well taken care of.

BillMason · #15 02-13-2008, 07:43 PM

If the drummer does *not* buy his own mics, he can't complain that they sound like as*wipe. If he buys his own, he gets what he wants.

Laserman · #16 02-13-2008, 10:27 PM

Well,

I believe in Buying equipment since it was I who decided to be a musician. I wish everybody felt this way. I own my own PA system with ALOT of Effects. I also own 11 Mikes including a few drum mikes. A Drummer should own his own mikes. If his $1000.00 includes his cymbals and stands then he doesn't have a real quality drumset . Let him play a gig unmiked and he find a way to get a few mikes. At a minimum he should own 2 mikes for his bass and Snare and the Stands and cables.

Barry

**T. B. Player** · #17 02-13-2008, 10:36 PM

Everyone has good points here - musician buys mics, they're the musicians. No question. However, the original thread stated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsk42

Our band's manager is INDEPENDENTLY financing our band PA.

He is buying (without any money provided either now or later from the band) a full PA including speakers, mixer, poweramps, snake, and subs.

We all have our own vocal mics.

When you say a "complete" PA system, and then leave out the microphones, that's oxymoronic.

The bands I've been in have a PA guy supplies everything INCLUDING the mics, stands, cables, monitors, and DIs.

A good PA guy will know this, since the mics can be matched for optimal performance for the system.

A PA guy who lets musicians buy their own mics doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

A manager who is "INDEPENDENTLY financing your band's PA" and then leaves microphone choice up to you is leaving out a critical part of the equation.

Think of it this way - go into a recording studio and say to the producer or engineer, "That's OK - I don't need to use your ElectroVoice RE20 - I brought my own Shure SM58." You won't be recording much ever again. You supply the talent - it's the PA guy's job to make sure the product sounds good.

I'm sure Barry will concur - he owns his own PA with a lot of mics. Vocal qualities are different - they require different mics to bring out the best in the vocal mix. You've selected your bass because of the tonal quality, the feel, and the music you can elicit from it. I'm sure you didn't go into a music store, point to a bass on the wall and say, "Uh, I'll take this one...." The same care has to go into mic selection to get the right sound.

Z

mattsk42 · #18 02-13-2008, 10:51 PM

VERY good point there. We are a very cohesive group, and I would not "let" the drummer buy mics that are not "approved" by me to work with the PA.

We will all comply to what I decide, since I'm the only one who knows anything, and they recognize that fact. However, just so that I have some facts to back up my "theory" that the drummer supplies the mics, I thought I would ask. If everyone in other bands supply the drum mics, then I would feel somewhat obligated to discuss doing that. But as I suspected, drummers almost always supply the mics.

Keep the opinions coming, they're interesting to hear.

Aaron · #19 02-14-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laserman

If his $1000.00 includes his cymbals and stands then he doesn't have a real quality drumset.

That's what I was thinking. With some kits, $1000 is the ride cymbal or snare drum.

51m0n · #20 02-14-2008, 03:43 AM

OK, some points to ponder:-

1) If you hire a PA, then you get all the mics, leads, DI boxes, mixers, monitors, power amps, fx racks, cabling & looms etc for the price of hire. Ergo a FULL PA includes a FULL set of mics from the point of view of hiring.

2) Every drummer worth his salt who is remotely serious that I have ever worked with has wound up getting a set of serious drum mics, usually after getting their first serious kit admittedly

3) Very very few guitarists bother to get a decent mic for their live cab (ie a quality ribbon mic, for instance). That's because they all believe an SM-57 is fine, truth is it isn't really, especially one that has seen 10 yrs of PA hire!

4) Not so long ago very very few vocalists ever thought of getting a mic either!

The reason for 2 is that although there are mics in 1 they have been used by every animal b*stard drummer on the circuit and have had seven bells knocked out of them and hence sound completely average at best.

If your drummer wants to control and improve his sound out front at all, then he can do 4 things:-
1) get his technique together
2) get a really decent kit
3) learn how to maintain his kit properly at all times
4) get decent drum mics and learn how best to set them up with his kit/technique

If on the other hand your management want to be able to hire out the PA to recoup its cost then they need a full set of mics (however cheap)

So you guys need to decide how best to fund/recoup this outlay.