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Band Management [BG] Examining issues with band membership, interaction, politics, and management.


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  #1  
Old 01-22-2009, 02:35 AM
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Why many bands don't last...(long post)

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There have been many posts on band member relationships and personalities, and how they (mostly) negatively affect a band. Many causing a band to breakup.

Here's some info I found that may shed some light on the predicaments that many TB'rs find themselves in. Found at (http://www.treatment4addiction.com/c...rs/personality). More detail on the site.

Personality Disorders
Personality disorders are chronic, non-psychotic, psychological disorders, which largely affect every aspect of a person’s life including relationships with family, friends, jobs and health. They are deeply ingrained, non-psychotic, rigid, maladaptive patterns of relating. They effect perception and behavior and are serious enough to cause impairment and dysfunction in an individual’s life.

A personality disorder is diagnosed when there is no ability for insight, reflection or accountability on the part of the individual and their lives are impaired by the characteristics.

Personality disorders are interrelated since they are linked by the attributes that they share in common. The following is a partial list of those shared characteristics.

* Self-centeredness and a self-preoccupied attitude
* Propensity for blaming others and circumstance
* Lack of perspective-taking and empathy
* Manipulative behavior
* Depression and other mood and anxiety disorders
* Vulnerability to other mental disorders and addiction
* Distorted or superficial understanding of self
* Socially maladaptive
* No hallucinations, delusions or thought disorders (except for the brief psychotic episodes of Borderline
Personality Disorder)


Personality disorders can be measured on a scale due to the fact that individuals may exhibit or experience anywhere from mild to severe signs and symptoms of a specific type of personality disorder. While individuals that experience mild symptoms of a personality disorder can live relatively normal lives, during times of increased pressure or stress the symptoms of the disorder may become intensified. Intimacy may also trigger or strengthen the traits. For example becoming closer to a partner in a relationship may trigger primal intense fears of abandonment for an individual with a personality disorder causing them to send mixed messages that alternate between extreme rejection coupled with intense neediness. Because of this pattern, many people with personality disorders have a history of short intense unstable relationships.

Personality disorders used to be called “characterological disorders” because they are rooted in the character of an individual. The character of a person is shown through his or her personality by which is displayed in the way they think and act. When their behavior is rigid and inflexible, and when the behavior is egocentonic, meaning they defend it as normal, then that individual is diagnosed with a personality disorder. Many people have character traits and patterns that they wish to change or that they view as not being who they really are at their core. Individuals with a personality disorder cannot see their behavior and thoughts as maladaptive and they will defend them as being justifiable and correct. In other words, denial and defense are common. It is believed that personality disorders may be caused by deficiencies in early preverbal attachment in children.

Personality disorders are noted on Axis II of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (referred to as the DSM IV) by the American Psychiatric Association. Per the DSM IV (which refers to the latest 4th edition) diagnosing a personality disorder must meet the following general criteria in addition to the specific criteria listed under the specific personality disorder under consideration. The following are the general diagnostic criteria from the DSM IV.

A. Experience and behavior that deviates significantly from the norm of the individual's society and culture. This pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:

* cognition (perception and interpretation of self, others and events)
* affect (the range, intensity, and appropriateness of emotional response)
* interpersonal functioning
* impulse control

B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.
C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. The pattern is stable and of long duration and its onset can be traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.
E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation or consequence of another mental disorder.
F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance or a general medical condition such as head injury.

People under 18 years old who fit the criteria of a personality disorder are usually not diagnosed with such a disorder, although they may be diagnosed with a related disorder. There are certain personality disorders which do not meet the full criteria and are designated by the diagnosis “Personality Disorder not otherwise specified.”

The DSM-IV lists ten distinct personality disorders, grouped into three clusters. The clusters are divided by the traits commonly exhibited within the disorders in that cluster.


Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders)
Paranoid personality disorder - Marked distrust of others, including the belief, without reason, that others are exploiting, harming, or trying to deceive him or her; lack of trust; belief of others' betrayal; belief in hidden meanings; unforgiving and grudge holding.
Schizoid personality disorder - Primarily characterized by a very limited range of emotion, both in expression of and experiencing; indifferent to social relationships.
Schizotypal personality disorder - Peculiarities of thinking, odd beliefs, and eccentricities of appearance, behavior, and thought (for example, belief in having magical powers but not in the context of a religious or cultural belief).

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)
Antisocial personality disorder - Lack of regard for the moral or legal standards of society, marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules.
Borderline personality disorder - Lack of one's own identity, with rapid changes in mood, intense unstable interpersonal relationships, marked impulsively, instability in affect and in self image.
Histrionic personality disorder - Exaggerated and often inappropriate displays of emotional reactions, approaching theatricality. Sudden and rapidly shifting emotional expressions.
Narcissistic personality disorder - Grandiosity, lack of empathy, need to be admired by others, inability to see the viewpoints of others, and hypersensitive to the opinions of others.

Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)
Avoidant personality disorder - Marked social inhibition, avoiding relating with other individuals, feelings of inadequacy, and extremely sensitive to criticism.
Dependent personality disorder - Extreme need of other people, to a point where the person is unable to make any decisions or take an independent stand on his or her own. Fear of separation. Submissive behavior. Marked lack of decisiveness and self-confidence.
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder – Extreme perfectionism and inflexibility, preoccupation with uncontrollable patterns of thought and action.

Each personality disorder has unique manifestations and these commonalities listed are not meant to suggest a uniform way in that the disorders show up in all people. And as stated earlier they occur on a continuum meaning everyone can relate somewhat to the characteristics to a certain degree. For example to some degree all people can identify with feeling, at some point in their lives needy, rejected, obsessed, self-righteous etc.

A personality disorder is diagnosed when there is no ability for insight, reflection or accountability on the part of the individual and their lives are impaired by the characteristics.

Last edited by Stumbo : 01-25-2009 at 02:14 AM.
  #2  
Old 01-22-2009, 03:00 AM
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holy crap! that just described our last drummer!

good post, but very disturbing
  #3  
Old 01-22-2009, 03:22 AM
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On the other hand. some people just have priorities and goals that change...
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:20 AM
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Yep. Also, consider this description:
"an egomanic with an inferiority complex"
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:40 AM
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My ex was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder after we split up...Reading about BPD on the net was like reading a synopsis of our entire relationship.

I'd venture to say that everyone has their moments (I pull a bit from group C every once in awhile) but that the majority handle their insanities, understand their causes and work around them, its the people that can't that get a diagnoses slapped on them. In other words we are all crazy, some just more so than others.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:42 PM
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just remember one out of three people are crazy
look to your left, then to your right..if they are normal, well then
  #7  
Old 01-22-2009, 01:00 PM
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Of course, the validity of personality disorders is still hotly debated by professionals to this day. even so, most folks have never looked inside the DSM - IV so it was cool to share.

I of course sum it up thus - "some people are jerks!"

  #8  
Old 01-22-2009, 01:06 PM
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I think my guitar player has all of these.
  #9  
Old 01-22-2009, 03:13 PM
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I don't think most bands fail to last because of personality disorders...but if a band crashes and burns, then probably yes. Bands come and go, ultimately, for a variety of reasons. I take my view from Dan Savage: every relationship fails until you find one that doesn't.

A band takes a lot more to function successfully than a group of people that play instruments and can more or less get along, and everyone has 'issues' to one degree or another. honest and respectful communication can mitigate things. However, when you end up with someone who qualifies as "no ability for insight, reflection or accountability on the part of the individual "
then of course you fight a losing battle.

What I have seen more often than not is that one or more members have some personality issues that begin to drag the band, and the de facto leader (weather they are the one with issues or not) avoids confrontation by breaking up the band and moving onto an new project (usually scooping up the members he preferred from the old band)
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Last edited by mambo4 : 01-22-2009 at 03:17 PM.
  #10  
Old 01-22-2009, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mambo4 View Post
What I have seen more often than not is that one or more members have some personality issues that begin to drag the band, and the de facto leader (weather they are the one with issues or not) avoids confrontation by breaking up the band and moving onto an new project (usually scooping up the members he preferred from the old band)
Living it, right now. Exactly describes my current band situation.

Cherie
  #11  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:42 PM
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Schizotypal personality disorder - Peculiarities of thinking, odd beliefs, and eccentricities of appearance, behavior, and thought (for example, belief in having magical powers but not in the context of a religious or cultural belief).

TOO BAD ATHEIST BASS CLUB NO MAGIC POWER FOR YOU!!!


that parenthetical caveat just made me chuckle. the thing about labeling these as 'disorders' is that pretty much every single human displays these traits at times. you can say that you need a chronic history and continuance of the traits to call it a disorder. but you can convince yourself/others that they happen all the time. If you ever get the chance to read the DSM in full you will convince yourself that you have at least 20 different personality/psychological disorders.
this is why i studied neuroscience and never really liked psychology. Psychology tells you that there is something wrong with YOU. Neuroscience tells you the underlying biological issues and maybe some concrete things you can do to offset these things.

but this is a bass forum so i'll go back to making more related posts. just felt the rant urge.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2009, 11:52 AM
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bands don't fail because of personality disorders...but it sure can help!

No, I take that back. Most bands fall apart because of jerks or flakes in the band -- categories that musicians seem to frequently fall in
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Last edited by QORC : 01-23-2009 at 11:54 AM.
  #13  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:00 PM
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sorry, #1 reason: money. or lack thereof.
  #14  
Old 01-24-2009, 01:32 PM
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every band i've been in that out-and-out failed was due to ego and baby-centric attitudes. mostly from people i had once admired greatly, but lost a lot of respect for.

it's safe to say that the very small handful of people i've truly fallen out with, were in bands that broke up for the stupidest reasons.
  #15  
Old 01-24-2009, 01:40 PM
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What does is mean for a band to fail?
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  #16  
Old 01-24-2009, 01:49 PM
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What does is mean for a band to fail?
in my case, the band got together, became all giddy because we thought we "clicked." devoted ridiculous hours and days to practicing, recording. lots of ruminating about touring, getting pictures taken, what we'd wear on stage, stage moves, etc.

then only playing like, 4-5 shows. the recordings get ditched, despite all the work and hours poured into them (however, they're DIY so no money lost, fortunately). someone getting huffy over it and writing a passive-aggressive mass email saying "i quit." realizing these people are over 30 and how stupid each and every person in the band actually was, myself included.

Last edited by overdrivethree : 01-24-2009 at 01:54 PM.
  #17  
Old 01-24-2009, 02:40 PM
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Theorem has been together since 1994..... Go figure.
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2009, 03:00 PM
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Being in a band is like being married. Its hard enough being married to a woman, but then you are married to your band and also their women because they all have some opinion on your business. I have been with mine(band) since 1991. But we did have a 9 year break between 1997 and 2006 so that helps. We all did alot of growing up in that time and relate to each other very well. When there is a problem, we talk about it and work through it.
Crap, I sound like a counselor. I'm done here.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:32 PM
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I have no idea the percentage of bands that break up due to one or more members having a personality disorder, but I've been there, and it's a drag. A close friend and I simply will not work with a former bandmate again, despite some fantastic gigs and good times. I was the first to refuse, and my buddy eventually followed suit, so the band has effectively dissolved. Whether this guy's disorder is narcissistic, borderline, or some combination, I don't know, but we simply won't deal with it.

I've been there with a former close friend too, which was even worse.

Thankfully, my current bandmates couldn't be much more down to Earth. It's all so drama-free that I sometimes forget I'm in an operational rock band! It's weird, actually.
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Last edited by Nedmundo : 01-24-2009 at 05:37 PM.
  #20  
Old 01-24-2009, 07:26 PM
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It reminds me of the old adage "never go into business with a friend"

Sadly, most of us start out by hooking up with friends who also play instruments, tho not everybody joins up with similar goals and ideas. over time, small issues (band related or not) seem to wear down the friendships and those who can't communicate responsibly crash and burn...I would bet that most of us have seen a friendship killed by band associated issues.

when you join a band of strangers, everyone is there to play music...
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