Why does a three piece band not get paid like a four piece band.

Dave44 · #1 11-17-2008, 07:35 AM

I've been hunting for some new joints to play in and around Calgary and I get the same bull#$%@ from all the managers. A three piece band only gets this much but if you're a four piece you get more. If we as a three piece can rock a joint down into the ground why do we have to settle for less money. We work our butts off ( we already have 5 sets ot toons to throw at them) sell just as much hooch and the crowds are dancin' a storm. Is there some kind of rule that's come out or am I just squeezing sour grapes. Maybe I'm missing some secret hand shake or something this has me preplexed and a little annoyed.

Geddyfleaharris · #2 11-17-2008, 08:30 AM

I have never even heard of that before.

So if you were a 12 piece would they quadruple the pay? Doubt it. Bar owners/managers are a thing of beauty.

von buck · #3 11-17-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave44

I've been hunting for some new joints to play in and around Calgary and I get the same bull#$%@ from all the managers. A three piece band only gets this much but if you're a four piece you get more. If we as a three piece can rock a joint down into the ground why do we have to settle for less money. We work our butts off ( we already have 5 sets ot toons to throw at them) sell just as much hooch and the crowds are dancin' a storm. Is there some kind of rule that's come out or am I just squeezing sour grapes. Maybe I'm missing some secret hand shake or something this has me preplexed and a little annoyed.

Your not really making less. The club owners around me out say an average of a hundred dollars a man so a three piece gets 300$, while a four piece gets 400$.
Any group larger, well then your on your own.

Andy

4bpauly · #4 11-17-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by von buck

Your not really making less. The club owners around me out say an average of a hundred dollars a man so a three piece gets 300$, while a four piece gets 400$.
Any group larger, well then your on your own.

Andy

I guess it depends on your own situation and the rooms you are playing but.. you still may have to setup/buy/rent a PA, still have to drive to the gig, still need to pay for reharsal space. therefore, overall i would say you are making less money. i have never heard of paying per player. in an entertainment setting, you are paying for just that, not for the amount of stage the band takes up.

phatbass · #5 11-17-2008, 09:31 AM

There's a bit of that around here - it's just more crap to try and chisel bands.

IanStephenson · #6 11-17-2008, 09:33 AM

Round here the band gets paid about $400, and who they have to pay out of that is their problem. We were a 5 piece, but now we're a happier 4 piece. I LOVE gigs with my 3 piece side project.

If a venue is paying more for a 4 piece (sya $100 a man), I'd find a cute girl to dance around on stage with a tamborine, declare we're now a 4 piece, and give her $25 of the extra for helping to scam the venue.

jefkritz · #7 11-17-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

If a venue is paying more for a 4 piece (sya $100 a man), I'd find a cute girl to dance around on stage with a tamborine, declare we're now a 4 piece, and give her $25 of the extra for helping to scam the venue.

great idea!

Stumbo · #8 11-17-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

If a venue is paying more for a 4 piece (sya $100 a man), I'd find a cute girl to dance around on stage with a tamborine, declare we're now a 4 piece, and give her $25 of the extra for helping to scam the venue.

Why not get a cute guy to dance around on stage?

Once the owner/mgr. figures out what's goin' on, that's probably the last time you'd play at that venue.

bggeezer · #9 11-17-2008, 10:01 AM

never heard of that before...

Venues in Devon pay %^**&^ money, whether your a 3 , 4, or 74 piece.

countrybass · #10 11-17-2008, 10:07 AM

I've heard of it from a different angle. A three piece can't sound as good as a larger group,therefore we won't book you period?!(***?).

Dave44 · #11 11-17-2008, 10:19 AM

It's bullocks listening to some bar manager claim a 4 piece makes a louder better noise than a 3 piece. I know for a fact after seeing some of the bands this dude has hired that we is much better than they is. We are professional, tighter and treat this as a job not a party, none of us drink so were putting out 150% as far as this bassist says.

bggeezer · #12 11-17-2008, 10:31 AM

What if the drummer and me share the lead vocal...does that make us a 5 piece?

von buck · #13 11-17-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bpauly

I guess it depends on your own situation and the rooms you are playing but.. you still may have to setup/buy/rent a PA, still have to drive to the gig, still need to pay for reharsal space. therefore, overall i would say you are making less money. i have never heard of paying per player. in an entertainment setting, you are paying for just that, not for the amount of stage the band takes up.

All that doesn't matter, it's the cost of doing business.
All the above has nothing to do with your gig pay. None of that concerns the club owner. They in general don't care about how much you spend, it's how much they want to pay.
Some, well most think of club owners as scum, but they are businessmen first. They do not care about your expences, or how you distibute your pay.

Andy

Dave44 · #14 11-17-2008, 10:51 AM

All three of us take turns singing lead vocals on our toons. Saves the throat from freaking out on me after singing a hard ass toon. Basically were at thier mercy if that's all he or she is going to pay us there is no room for discussion. Who said life is fair. Still feels like were being taken advantage of though and that thought will not leave my brains. Hey the joint were playing in is still selling a ton-o-drinks and charging everyone the regular fees except for the band sweating thier balls off on stage. It's not right.

Dave44 · #15 11-17-2008, 10:55 AM

So where does the extra 200+or- bones go for the fourth player you would have had to pay if a 4 piece did show up? I can only guess.

JmJ · #16 11-17-2008, 10:56 AM

It's not right at all. Are they offering a discount at the door because the band has only three members? Is there a price break at the bar for the same reason? I don't think so.
It's a truly lame excuse to not pay you. You are being ripped off. Unfortunately, in this instance there ain't much you can do about it.......

Brad Johnson · #17 11-17-2008, 10:58 AM

It's a negotiating ploy, plain and simple. A friend of mine just ran into that at a club here, first I'd heard of it around here. In addition, the club owner told him him that he thought his trio would play quiet music because... it's a trio.

Hard to argue against well thought out logic like that, never mind Hendrix, Cream, The Police, ZZ Top... all quiet little trios.

Club owners generally count on musicians not being business savvy. They're usually right.

VroomVroom · #18 11-17-2008, 11:03 AM

Brad pretty much stole my thunder...I have nothing to add.

For casuals, I'll happily book by-the-person, but for club gigs the sound and reputation of the band should be your basis for negotiating. The last time I played in a really fun "bar" band, the sole reason we went with a trio format was to ensure that we all made a few bucks. We didn't market ourselves as a three-piece, but rather as a band that would keep the dance floor busy.

Dave44 · #19 11-17-2008, 11:05 AM

Exactly what I think JmJ they're not giving anybody in the club a break because were a 3 piece. But what does one do? swallow your pride play the gig and if it goes well and he wants you back then that's when the ball is in this bassists hands.

spark_chaser · #20 11-17-2008, 11:11 AM

It's because the rhythm guitarist doesn't count...j/k