Why so much sugar coating?

[zachoff]

I see threads all the time about "how should I do this" or "what should I do when"... I wonder why you don't just tell the truth and speak your mind. Maybe I'm in a weird band but when something's off we tell each other. If a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A either me or the drummer will tell the guitar player that a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A. If drummer plays a fill that totally doesn't fit, we'll tell him. If I sing dumb words they'll tell me. If a new bass sounds crap they'll tell me. Other way works too! If something sounds awesome we'll tell each other! Plus we'll record it!

Anyway, a mini-rant. I just think it's silly to play in bands with people that are so fragile that one comment can ruin their ego or something. Nobody does anything perfect all the time. Rarely, I'd figure.

[Plays_For_Dog]

+1 Honesty up front is the best policy. No need to be a jerk about it, but constructive criticism helps fix small problems before they grow in to gigantic situations.

[lonote]

Originally Posted by zachoff

I see threads all the time about "how should I do this" or "what should I do when"... I wonder why you don't just tell the truth and speak your mind. Maybe I'm in a weird band but when something's off we tell each other. If a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A either me or the drummer will tell the guitar player that a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A. If drummer plays a fill that totally doesn't fit, we'll tell him. If I sing dumb words they'll tell me. If a new bass sounds crap they'll tell me. Other way works too! If something sounds awesome we'll tell each other! Plus we'll record it!

Anyway, a mini-rant. I just think it's silly to play in bands with people that are so fragile that one comment can ruin their ego or something. Nobody does anything perfect all the time. Rarely, I'd figure.

You're absolutely right. I might add that it is best to do it right away rather than stalling.

[stevemac]

I always take what people say as just their opinion unless I consider them a bona fide expert. So I get the "say what you will but say it with respect" thing.

[viper4000]

+1 100% - but not everyone is lucky enough to play with a band full of thick-skinned people.

My keyboard player is "delicate" as we say. He has chops for days. So it's really fun playing with him. However, he has a huge insecurity about being heard during a gig. It's all nonsense, as we always have a nice clean mix for FOH. But this is his hang-up. if I tell him to turn down, in a clean-cut, no questions asked manner, he gets upset and doesn't play nice with other kids for a few songs. If we sugar coat it and tell him he sounds good, BUT the crowd says he is too loud, then he will turn down. I would rather take the full-frontal, tell-it-how-it-is approach. But I also, understand not everyone handles criticism the same.

[stflbn]

However, there's quite a few people who use the honestly ploy as an excuse to be abusive, hurtful, and uncaring.

There's a difference between being open and honest, and being a hurtful ass with no filter.

IMHO.

[HeadyVan Halen]

Yes. This.
We are all really good friends in my band so we have no issues with that stuff. It's more like "hey, slapd*ck, could you play that right.."

[tdub0199]

We do the same thing, no need to let it build up until one band mates wants to explode.....

[Nev375]

It's a better policy to "sugar-coat" things and use a good deal of tact with most everyone I think. People are funny. I meet very few who are as thick skinned enough to take directness from a stranger. Even worse, you find people who appear to be thick skinned, but underneath are anguishing in resentment and pain over a comment that was never meant to be taken with such seriousness or analysis. Those people can be time bombs.

While it's true that such people have problems and need to seek counselling and it is not our responsibility to protect their psyche. These type of people are out there and we will be working with them at one point or another. Better to treat everyone with the care you would give a loaded gun. Words are like bullets, you can't un-say something once you shoot your mouth off.

[bassbully]

I think the issue here is how well do you know each other? like each other? and do you respect each other and even get along? In my band we know the answer to those questions and nobody has an issue over correcting a players parts etc. We are all heard as a group and speak our minds. We also work as a team and get along great.

Why? Cuz like the questions I stated we know the answers. I'm afraid there are those here that and don't know how to ask a difficult question or handle an issue since they dont really know their bandmates, the person,get along etc.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by stflbn

However, there's quite a few people who use the honestly ploy as an excuse to be abusive, hurtful, and uncaring.

There's a difference between being open and honest, and being a hurtful ass with no filter.

IMHO.

Thank you.

[mpdd]

sugar coating is the way of parents, the k-12 school system, and now colleges

honesty can shake somebody up and then you might have to deal with some severe acting out and the stress involved, sugarcoat and grade inflate

(sorry rough week at the school so far)

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by zachoff

I see threads all the time about "how should I do this" or "what should I do when"... I wonder why you don't just tell the truth and speak your mind. Maybe I'm in a weird band but when something's off we tell each other. If a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A either me or the drummer will tell the guitar player that a phaser sounds like poop in guitar solo A. If drummer plays a fill that totally doesn't fit, we'll tell him. If I sing dumb words they'll tell me. If a new bass sounds crap they'll tell me. Other way works too! If something sounds awesome we'll tell each other! Plus we'll record it!

Anyway, a mini-rant. I just think it's silly to play in bands with people that are so fragile that one comment can ruin their ego or something. Nobody does anything perfect all the time. Rarely, I'd figure.

We have a competent leader with class A original Pop Rock songs (if you don’t believe me go to our web site). His songs might not be everyone’s cup of tea. However the arrangements are tight and the parts are structured and set in stone.

Most suggestions about altering parts or even patches are received with a “no” and I have to say he’s always right. This is not a working environment for everyone , but it works for me.

[Downunderwonder]

Case in point. Tune has been a trainwreck two times we gigged it, but not at practice. Tonights practice I brought it up and ruffled the feathers of boywonder gatman.

Turned out it was the singer not really knowing the words properly and gatman subconsciously bending his rhythm time to suit her being a tad late in the middle of a bar with 4 on the floor bass line. Doing my head in that was.

It was making me look like an absolute twat but if I hadn't kicked up about it and held my ground it would have been neglected.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by stflbn

However, there's quite a few people who use the honestly ploy as an excuse to be abusive, hurtful, and uncaring.

There's a difference between being open and honest, and being a hurtful ass with no filter.

IMHO.

+1,000. Anyone with experience in relationships, whether band relationships or marriages, knows this to be true. IMO, sensitivity and concern about others' feelings always trumps "being totally honest all the time."

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by stflbn

However, there's quite a few people who use the honestly ploy as an excuse to be abusive, hurtful, and uncaring.

There's a difference between being open and honest, and being a hurtful ass with no filter.

IMHO.

Great statement.

'Sugar-coating' is a disrespectful take on tact and diplomacy. Honesty without tact is simple brutality, which is highly toxic in a collaborative art like music. On the other hand, tact without honesty doesn't count for much.

If you cannot make a serious point without inflaming the situation, you are setting the stage for ultimate failure.

A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that it makes you look forward to the trip. (not my quote)

[Zoa]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Case in point. Tune has been a trainwreck two times we gigged it, but not at practice. Tonights practice I brought it up and ruffled the feathers of boywonder gatman.

Turned out it was the singer not really knowing the words properly and gatman subconsciously bending his rhythm time to suit her being a tad late in the middle of a bar with 4 on the floor bass line. Doing my head in that was.

It was making me look like an absolute twat but if I hadn't kicked up about it and held my ground it would have been neglected.

This, good sir, was an extremely Australian post.

[Downunderwonder]

Nope, Kiwi, my bro's wife has popped out an Aussie neice and nephew but that's the end of my relations to Australia.

[mcm]

thats whats wrong with this whole country and world, everybodys too fragile and pc now.

[MatticusMania]

We don't have this problem in my band, and I work with an egomaniac. He actually appreciates constructive criticism.