Why the transition to one nighters?

[tlr1293]

Originally Posted by Factor88

I don't doubt what you say, but remember that 15 years ago I could play at the same bar 5 nights in a row, for 3 weeks straight, and see the same faces on most nights, having fun. So my question was why are those people, or more properly, that philosophy, gone, while people like you are the only ones left?

15 years ago...
- Cable TV was maybe 40 channels, tops.
- The WWW was an AOL account still (for most people) and NOTHING streamed into an XBOX/Roku/BluRay/TV.
- Smart Phones did not exist (OK, maybe the very beginnings of Blackberry?).
- Socializing was in person and not via Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, texting, etc...
- Smoking was still allowed (for those that smoked) in bars AND the parking lots!

Technology, my friend - technology can be blamed for the changing habits of humans.

[Factor88]

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

now you have Bars A-L hosting bands M-Z on any given night.

more choices.

Not trying to sound argumentative, but are you suggesting that the bar scene in your town has MORE bars with bands on any given night than it did 15 years ago? That may be true in your neck of the woods but isn't in mine and sounds like not true in most other markets that people describe on this board.......

[Factor88]

Originally Posted by tlr1293

Technology, my friend - technology can be blamed for the changing habits of humans.

I don't dispute that for one minute....what I am asking is HOW access to new technology creates an economic disincentive for a bar to hire the same band two nights in a row. Some posters have some good ideas so far...keep em comin....

[jive1]

Originally Posted by Factor88

Not trying to sound argumentative, but are you suggesting that the bar scene in your town has MORE bars with bands on any given night than it did 15 years ago? That may be true in your neck of the woods but isn't in mine and sounds like not true in most other markets that people describe on this board.......

+1

In terms of live music only, there were more venues and more nights of live music 15-20 years ago than there is now by a longshot. Way more opportunities and options for listening to live music.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by Factor88

I don't doubt what you say, but remember that 15 years ago I could play at the same bar 5 nights in a row, for 3 weeks straight, and see the same faces on most nights, having fun. So my question was why are those people, or more properly, that philosophy, gone, while people like you are the only ones left?

I think the following quote explains some of it.

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

The simple answer is Popular Music. When we played 5-6 night stands in bars/clubs, the mainstream was listening to music that was readilly able to be played by bands, Hard Rock, Hair Metal, Classic rock, Dance etc.

Today, the general population go to clubs to hear House Mixes and Hip Hop. This rhythm based computer mix is not what Musicians play, thus it is easier for clubs to have a Sound System and the ocassional DJ than a stage and hire bands. This is a more effective use of space for the club owner.

One thing I noticed is that bands seem to have a smaller repertoire of tunes than they used to and they don't seem to improvise as much. It might be due to not being as many back-to-backs, house band gigs, etc. where you would want the additional material.

Also, to keep up with DJs and pull off some modern music, bands use sequenced tracks for their show. Which means less improvisation, and additional work to add a song to a band's repertoire. IME, the more produced a band's show is, the more tightly they are tied to a setlist, repertoire, etc.

[mikegug]

Originally Posted by Factor88

...what I am asking is HOW access to new technology creates an economic disincentive for a bar to hire the same band two nights in a row.

Not so much a disincentive as it is economically viable(?) in the eyes of club owners. It's a mixture of issues.

Here's a big problem though: People just don't go out like they used to. Technology is able to provide relational fullfillment without leaving your house!

30 years ago: "Let's meet at the pub and maybe we'll get into a fight, or at least SEE one!"

Today: "Let's meet online at 9:00 and we'll go kill aliens."

[tlr1293]

What I was trying to say. Thanks.

So if club population is down, no need for multiple nights.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by mikegug

Here's a big problem though: People just don't go out like they used to. Technology is able to provide relational fullfillment without leaving your house!

30 years ago: "Let's meet at the pub and maybe we'll get into a fight, or at least SEE one!"

Today: "Let's meet online at 9:00 and we'll go kill aliens."

It's not just live music either.

- I see less and less kids playing pickup sports in the playground. Heck, I don't see that many kids out and about, period.

- I see less and less people at any place of recreation such as a bowling alley, arcade, rec center, etc.

- I see more and more people who go to a place to 'socialize' like a coffee shop or even a bar, and just sit there staring at their phone or laptop.

[MNAirHead]

I notice the demographic is older...

[Bert Slide]

The middleclass is more overworked and has less time, energy and disposable income to spend on leisure activities than they used to. Just one factor of course but a significant one.

[Stumbo]

The first year of the Baby Boomers(BBs) turned 18 was in 1964. The last year of the Baby Boomers turning 18 in 1982.

Let's say all the BBs went clubbing, partying, etc. until they were 30 y.o. That gives a time period of 1964 to 1994 (30 years) that the US had about 77 million people (with some money) available to attend clubs, bars,concerts etc. During that time the biggest advances music tech wise was going from reel to reel tape to vinyl to cassette tape to CD's. Sure there were smaller players like Walkman but they were expensive and not many people had them at first.

Some of my friends went to many, many concerts during those years. The Interweb was barely beginning to catch on after 1994. So 77 million people could play/watch sports or socialize at club on the weekend or probably watch some TV during the week. Or you visited family on the weekend and BBQ'd or whatever.

Don't forget that "Rock n Roll" was a very big deal, especially with all the English bands coming over and Jimi, Grateful Dead and their cohorts playing their stuff. It was a huge deal to attend their concerts and locally, if you could play their music, gigs were plentiful. People gathered to hear new albums by new bands or the latest albums by the popular bands. Listening to music on crappy AM radio only motivated people more to hear their idols or bands covering them so they could dance, socialize and pick up on each other.

With birth control becoming widely available, BB families were (are) much smaller than the families they grew up in, and with music going to more Pop, the file sharing on the web and CD copying, reduction of drinking/smoking, why go to a venue and that may or may not have good sound and the music is so loud you can't socialize and pay $$ all at the same time? So you have smaller families with more entertainment choices using better technology and less "going out" to socialize because you can do it from your PC or phone therefore less gigs for live music. The venues can choose among DJs, karaoke, band or have all three different days of the week and make more money doing it that way.

Oh, btw, when I got married we hired a DJ at provide the music. based on scheduling, budget and the diversity of the music we wanted to have played. I asked my band to play and give me a discount but they wouldn't. Guess they didn't really want me in the band after all.

[bluewine]

It's a tough dying verticle, live bands playing in clubs and bars.

There are some areas that have that small remaining group of young people that like hearing live bands.

My observation, when young folks ( 21-25) enter a club or bar, if there's a dj they stay, if it's a live band they leave immediately.

My band caters to the 50 plus crowds at biker bars. Closest thing to the old days I've seen. They still like live bands and like to prove they can still hang out till closing.

Blue

[Kmonk]

From 1980 to 1984 my band gigged 5 nights per week and rehearsed on the other two. It was rare that we took a night off. We were constantly adding new songs and covered just about anything that was popular. The band was a six piece all of whom sang and included a multi-instrumentalist who played guitar, flute, sax, harmonica and fiddle. This allowed us to cover a wide variety of bands. We were the house band a club and played there every Tuesday and Wednesday and played Tuesday - Saturday one week each month. We never played for less than $500 on a weeknight or $1,000 on a Friday and Saturday night. This meant we were making around $3,500 per week.

Unfortunately, times changed. Electronic music became more popular, and disc jockeys began using cds instead of records. This meant less weight to carry around and faster setup and breakdowns. As a result, there are many more DJs than there were 25 or 30 years ago. They also charged less than most bands.

More sports bars started opening.

Private "Underground Rave" parties became very popular.

Music styles have also changed.

There are more bands now than ever before. Supply and demand economics. Why pay more than you have to?

The economy has also played a role. Many people have the attitude that why should they go to a bar and pay $4 or $5 for a beer, when for a dollar or two more, they can get a six pack and stay home or go to a friend's house.

It all adds up to fewer people going to clubs and the bar owner is not going to pay money to have a band on a night when they know the club will not be packed.

[LiquidMidnight]

My last band would occasionally do back-to-back nights. We sometimes ran into the primary problem described: It was difficult to draw sizable crowds both nights. And we were a pretty entertaining band and a had a large enough repertoire to play a large amount of different material between the two nights.

My current project does some out of state gigs, and whenever possible, my BL tries to get back-to-back nights (and higher pay, of course) to justify going out of the region to play gigs.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by jive1

Also, to keep up with DJs and pull off some modern music, bands use sequenced tracks for their show. Which means less improvisation, and additional work to add a song to a band's repertoire. IME, the more produced a band's show is, the more tightly they are tied to a setlist, repertoire, etc.

I opened for a band earlier this year that had a lot of sequenced backing tracks. And it just wasn't pads, keys, and synth parts. They had sampled guitar tracks and backing vocals. They sounded great, though. You do what cha gotta do, I suppose. Even rock music has become downright ridiculous with how much production is on any given track. I think that it's honestly become hard for the typical four-piece to cover a lot of the stuff on the radio anymore.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

I think that it's honestly become hard for the typical four-piece to cover a lot of the stuff on the radio anymore.

Most hits, regardless of the vintage have huge production values and only the top notch bands have the resources to reproduce it pull it off.

Blue

[Stewie26]

Originally Posted by jive1

It's not just live music either.

- I see less and less kids playing pickup sports in the playground. Heck, I don't see that many kids out and about, period.

- I see less and less people at any place of recreation such as a bowling alley, arcade, rec center, etc.

- I see more and more people who go to a place to 'socialize' like a coffee shop or even a bar, and just sit there staring at their phone or laptop.

I think Jive nailed the very core of the problem. Can you even try to imagine what the social protocols will be in, say 10 or 20 years from now.

[two fingers]

Not sure why, but it has changed. We used to play a place and Charlotte Mon-Sat and one in Greensboro Tues-Sat. None of those gigs around any more.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by Kmonk

Unfortunately, times changed. Electronic music became more popular, and disc jockeys began using cds instead of records. This meant less weight to carry around and faster setup and breakdowns. As a result, there are many more DJs than there were 25 or 30 years ago. They also charged less than most bands.

Interesting observation.

Nowadays you can carry 100s of 1000s of songs on a laptop or external hard drive, and not even have to pay for the music. And if you wanted to go legal, there are online DJ and Karaoke services that you pay a small monthly fee to stream 1000s of songs.

I think lossless recording definitely changed the game. Back when we had to copy to a tape, it often didn't sound as good as the original. And it took time. If an album was 45 minutes, it took us 45 minutes to record it. Even with high speed dubbing, it could still take over 20 minutes. And I had to buy tapes. 1 90 minute tape held about 2 albums of music, and I had to pay over a buck for a quality tape. Today, I can copy an album in seconds and have it sound just like the source and have it cost me nothing.

Lossless recording, compact size, and cheap music definitely helped DJs get an edge.

[Factor88]

Great discussion. …some very excellent points above. Stumbo’s breakdown of the baby-boomer demographic might have been advanced somewhere else on this board in the past, but this is the first I’ve read it and it is a great observation. So allow me to summarize on the consensus answer to my original post:

1) Due to a variety of things, there are not nearly as many people going out to bars/clubs to see live music performed by bands as there were in the past,

2) Because of the above, the bar/club owners that still want to persist with the idea of hiring live entertainment can’t rely on a good “walk up” crowd night after night; they have to rely on the band bringing in people,

3) Most bands can’t draw a following on consecutive nights, so because of above, bar/clubs are reluctant to book a band on consecutive nights.

So, if this is in fact the consensus opinion, then it follows that bands would have trouble drawing on consecutive nights in some geographic radius, not just at the same bar. What I mean is, if you have a gig in a small city on one side of town on a Friday night, and another gig 15 minutes’ drive away on the other side of town on Saturday, most bands will have trouble drawing on both nights (obviously size of the town, heath of the bar scene, demographics, and quality of the band are going to factors). That has implications for anyone who wants to play as many nights as possible….you are going to have resign yourself to spending some time in your vehicle getting to most gigs, and also have to find a way to initially attract people in different towns and then keep them as followers (at least in their town). I see that I am engaging in stating the obvious, but the whole thing was interesting to me. Sure, in the old days I did a bit of driving (if you think driving 2 hours one way to a gig is long, try doing it 5 nights in a row) but never had to worry about initially attracting a crowd…..the bar did that. Anyway, I’m sure glad that I don’t have to try making ends meet as a full time performing musician in today’s environment.