Working for a Country Singer. Help!

[powellmacaque]

Here's the situation:

A local country singer with Nashville ties (Jeffrey Steele writes his songs and records his stuff) asked my former band to be his rhythm section. The drummer, who was "the bandleader" called me and my friend who is the other guitarist to fill out the line-up. My friend and I drove from school every weekend (400 miles one way) in February to play two gigs for this singer, we made $225 for both gigs and were not compensated for practices.

In two weeks we have another gig, and the other members besides myself and my guitarist friend have to back out after this gig due to other commitments with their own project, as they make about $400 a night 4 nights a week as a house band for various clubs.

The singer dubbed me the new band leader, but I'm not sure I want this type of responsibility. The only perk is an extra $50 per gig.

My responsibilities are to chart out the songs from mp3 (for all instruments), find and audition other members, keep in contact with the members, send out set lists and mp3s of the songs, and find a rehearsal space.

The singer also would like to have practices once a week all summer until September when we have two gigs.

The singer is on the verge of a record deal. He also uses another band whenever he plays shows up where he lives (he lives in Alabama, we're his band when he comes down to FL).

I'm beginning to feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick. I also get the feeling that as soon as the guy can afford the Nashville musicians, he's going to ditch us even though we put a bunch of time and energy into his music. We've had people tell us that we sound so much better than his previous guys, and we're 20 years younger.

I would really like to draw up a contract guaranteeing proper compensation and guaranteeing exclusive rights to be his band. I figure if we're going to be putting all this time into his project, we deserve the right to demand certain things in return. We're all aspiring to be professional musicians, but non of us are really "country guys" and to be honest we don't "need" this gig.

Any suggestions? Does this sound like a good idea? Should I ask for more money? How about compensation for practices, etc?

[pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

We're all aspiring to be professional musicians, but non of us are really "country guys" and to be honest we don't "need" this gig.

if the $$ isn't there, your heart isn't there, and a good career opp isn't there . . . then you shouldn't be there.


just my 2¢ - ymmv

[mwbonsall]

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

I would really like to draw up a contract guaranteeing proper compensation and guaranteeing exclusive rights to be his band. I figure if we're going to be putting all this time into his project, we deserve the right to demand certain things in return. We're all aspiring to be professional musicians, but non of us are really "country guys" and to be honest we don't "need" this gig.

You have already found the answer.

Mark

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by mwbonsall

You have already found the answer.

Mark

How do I make it legal and binding?

What should I ask for? What will make me sound like a diva?

[FromTheBassMent]

This all boils down to the question, why do you want to be a musician?

If it's to establish a career that may eventually make you enough money that you don't have to do much of anything else, then I would suggest you sit down with this guy, explain your reservations, but let him know that you've got his back as long as you have some kind of contractual arrangement that ensures that you'll be treated fairly when the record deal comes through. A lot of touring pros have been in exactly the same situation you are in. Many of them are not playing their favorite genre of music. But, if you want to be a career bassist, you probably won't be playing your favorite genre of music most of the time anyway... you'll be skilled enough to jump genres, and you will do so to follow the money.

If it's because you have a deep passion for a particular kind of music, or because you want to write your own material and pursue your own fame and fortune and wouldn't get any sort of satisfaction playing other people's music no matter how good the pay, you should probably turn down this offer.

If you just want to be in a house band that makes $400 a night, I'm assuming you wouldn't even be asking for input.

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by FromTheBassMent

This all boils down to the question, why do you want to be a musician?

If it's to establish a career that may eventually make you enough money that you don't have to do much of anything else, then I would suggest you sit down with this guy, explain your reservations, but let him know that you've got his back as long as you have some kind of contractual arrangement that ensures that you'll be treated fairly when the record deal comes through. A lot of touring pros have been in exactly the same situation you are in. Many of them are not playing their favorite genre of music. But, if you want to be a career bassist, you probably won't be playing your favorite genre of music most of the time anyway... you'll be skilled enough to jump genres, and you will do so to follow the money.

If it's because you have a deep passion for a particular kind of music, or because you want to write your own material and pursue your own fame and fortune and wouldn't get any sort of satisfaction playing other people's music no matter how good the pay, you should probably turn down this offer.

If you just want to be in a house band that makes $400 a night, I'm assuming you wouldn't even be asking for input.

I'm at a point in my life where I want to make music happen regardless of style of music. I would love to do my own stuff, but that's just extremely hard to get into. I don't know if I said this clearly in my OP, but I am no longer apart of the house band. It wasn't my scene.

I like playing with the guy and the music is fun. My only thing is I don't want to get ripped. I don't want to put all this energy into it only to be dropped a year down the road because he found another band with more prestige.

I'm also at a point where to make music, I need to be guaranteed gigs and money. I want to be able to focus only on music, but I also need to put gas in my car.

[thumpbass1]

You are a hired gun plain and simple. Enjoy it for what it is, and yes try to negotiate a contract for fair pay, etc, for the work that you got hired for, but beyond that; you can't really make any extra demands. He's hired you, not the other way around. Your idea for the exclusive rights you think you should get, are pure fantasy. Yeah it would be nice, but it's not how it works in the real world. You'll also learn that tons of promises are made at all levels of the music biz than are actually delivered on. It's just the nature of the business, and has been for decades. Be professional, but take care of your business because no one else is going to do it for you. I wish you luck.

[ding_man]

As a true professional, you'll move on to the next cat.

You know how many country singers say they have (and probably do have) Nashville connections.

I'm 20 years old, going to school, and kinda in the same boat as you. I would keep the gig if you think its worth it and try and get more money, but when the time comes move on to the next thing.

The fact is.. you're 20 years old. If he goes to Nashville hes getting a Nashville band. You're goal should be to be someone good enough and with enough connections to one day be that "Nashville band" for someone (not literally country but you know what I mean)

I'm PMing you we should talk more.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

I'm beginning to feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick.

Careful. You don't want to end up in the slow learner category. Does the pay so far even cover your gas?

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Careful. You don't want to end up in the slow learner category. Does the pay so far even cover your gas?

I think I'm hundreds in the hole so far with gas. Cost me about $40 in gas to go both ways (me and the one guitarist split gas and car usage), multiplied by 10 weeks so $400 in gas, I've made $225 so far. I have a gig coming up the 5th that should bring it to about even in gas. Luckily the guitarist and I have moved closer to the practice space and will only spend about $5 getting to practice now.

For all the pros out there already: how much would you ask for? We're playing places with 500 - 5,000 people in attendance (most of those bigger gigs are benefits though).

Would it be too much to make him sign us on for a certain amount of time? What about paid rehearsals (I know that's the norm for jazz and classical, but what about country?).

Also: is it expecting a bit much of me to take mp3 files and transcribe them?

I do want to be a pro but I do not want to be taken for less than I'm worth. I'd consider myself a pro-level bassist and while I know I don't have the name to demand top-level prices, I also need to put food on the table (so to speak).

[steveksux]

Figure out what its costing you in gas, what you think its worth for your time. Make sure its what you really need. Ask for it. If he can't provide it, you've already decided its not worth your time to do it for less. Be prepared to wak away, that's what you're setting up for. Leaving him behind.

Are you guys really better than the Nashville guys backing him up? There are some killer players in Nashville.

Either you guys are smoking hot, or he's stuck with the 2nd tier Nashville guys, probably cause he's not paying the going rate out there, and relying on guys that will do it for pocket change, "hoping to make it big" with him when he gets his record deal.

Randy

[ding_man]

If you aren't making profit at all then you are NOT getting paid enough.

[azureblue]

Make a list of how much it is costing you to practice with him.
Note how much time you are putting in- itemize it, from driving time to time charting the music, to finding musicians. Then put a dollar sign on your hourly.

Sit down with the guy and ask him if you are his primary bass player / music director- that is, the one, if he hits, that he will use to tour and record with. If he gets dodgy, then no need to go any further, just let him know you need a firm commitment from him, and he can't deliver it, so you have to find more secure work. If he does want you and say you will be his main man, then show him the costs list and the time list, tell him that you are having financial problems because you aren't getting enough to break even, much less profit, and ask him what he can do to solve this.



Be nice. This is just business, so do not get personal. Avoid naming him as much as you can in discussions, but call it " the situation". Don't get confrontational, and approach this as if you and him are trying to solve a mutual problem. He may not be able to do anything, and may not have enough gigs and money to make it happen, but there is no need to make it a personal issue with him, so, do not let you or him make it personal, and keep cool. He may level with you and tell you he can't come up with more money, and that is when you need to decide, if you want to keep working on spec. From what you describe so far, you should be looking for a graceful way out of this so you can leave him wanting to re- hire you, if things get better for him. He may surprise you by stepping up and finding the money, but you have to lay out the situation in a business like manner, and let him do the problem solving. Remember- this is not your problem, it is his. He needs you, you have to find out if you are secure in this position, and you need to knwo what your duties are and how much, and when you will get paid, whether it is in a guaranteed number of gigs in a specified span of time, or a salary.

[James Judson]

Country singers leave a bad taste in my mouth. No loyalty, no musicianship and inflated egos. They do things like visit Nashville and buy a cell phone. Then claim they live there (just look at my cell prefix). Drop ya like a dirty shirt soon as they perceive something better. I hope your experiences are better.

YMMV

JJ

PS: Upside, Audiences are young, fun and energetic. Makes for a good party.

[Daveomd]

You could look at it as being good experience for you seeing what all it takes to organize and run a band, which will definitely come in handy later. It could also be good experience for you to see what it's like to put your heart and soul and time into something and then be taken advantage of and get screwed when and IF something happens with this guy. Who knows, if you can have a good honest, professional relationship with him he might be loyal to you. My dealings with singers, however, have been that it's all about them and I should have felt lucky to get to be their back up and go the extra mile. Geez, I don't even want to start thinking about it. I LOVE instrumental music!

[thumpbass1]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Country singers leave a bad taste in my mouth. No loyalty, no musicianship and inflated egos. They do things like visit Nashville and buy a cell phone. Then claim they live there (just look at my cell prefix). Drop ya like a dirty shirt soon as they perceive something better. I hope your experiences are better.

YMMV

JJ

PS: Upside, Audiences are young, fun and energetic. Makes for a good party.

Sounds like rock singers, and vocalists in other genres that I've run across over the years; when it comes to purely self serving buisness and personal ethics. I don't think it's exclusive to country music, other than the homage to Nashville as their Mecca for country star wannabe's.